This is a question about the Tilley Model IL33 decal. According to an illustration in a book by the late Jim Dick, it appears to be applied to the rim of a donut tank, but I have never seen an actual example. Sometimes IL33s have been listed on eBay, but the decals were not attached and I could not use them as a reference. For IL47 and OL51, I have seen a decal under the fuel filler/air injection cap. If anyone could tell me where the IL33 decal was placed on the donut tank, I'd really appreciate it. Regards, Shinzo
@Anthony Thank you, Anthony. How kind you are! Once again I was able to learn from you. In fact, the illustration you showed is similar to that of the late Jim Dick. As you say, Jim may have used this illustration as a reference. The problem, as you well know, is that the illustrations Tilley uses in the catalogs etc. are not necessarily accurate, and old ones have been used for a long time. So we may not get a clear answer until we find a real example. Again, if anyone could show me where the IL33 decal was placed on the donut tank, I'd really appreciate it. Regards, Shinzo
@pete sav Thank you Pete. It seems I was not wrong to be skeptical about the placement of the decals in the illustration. This is an example of why we should not just take the illustrations published in catalogs, etc. at face value. Thank you again. Best regards, Shinzo
Another case in point of. Here is a catalogue pic of the IL47 with the decal on the rim but all the pics I have seen have the decal above the rim. Decal also says IL33. From most catalogues, the IL33 has the figure 8 loops and a pringle deflector and the IL47 has the round deflector and no 8s.
@Anthony Hi Anthony, You are right as usual. Regarding the IL47, the picture in the catalog doesn't have figure 8 loops, but all the actual IL47s I've seen have figure 8 loops. Also, regarding the shape of the deflector and globe, I think it's a common combination of round deflector and frosted globe, but I'm a little skeptical that this style has been around since the IL47 first appeared in 1947. I suspect that a combination of Pringle deflector and onion globe (or Vitreosil globe) may also have been sold in the late 1940s. But this is just my unsupported speculation. @pete sav Pete, if you know, please let me know. Best regards, Shinzo
Well spotted, Ian! I note, too, that it says “Lifebouy”, which is the term Jim Dick used. Cheers Tony
I think the IL47 appears in catalogues from 1948 but its much like the previous IL33 in appearance that is pringle and clear globe or vitrosil so it appears was just a name change. First time its illustrated as the IL47 the warden is in 1955 it now has a round heat deflector and frosted globe 284 i think. Neil has one in the gallery. All donuts i have seen have the figure 8 links to the suspension gear. Now the fixing on the tank for the figure 8 loops earlier ones have a flat brass boss with a hole in. Later ones just have a round boss with a hole thro Anyone else seen that ? Cheers pete
@pete sav Thank you for the very informative information. I'm happy to confirm that the pringle deflector and onion (or Vitreosil) globe combination was sold with IL47 at least in the late 1940s. Pete, you have hawk eyes. Regarding the tank mounting for the figure 8 loops, I didn't notice that the later donut tank had a round boss with a hole. Even though I own an IL47 that seems to be from the mid-1950s, I wasn't very observant. I learned a lot from you again, thank you very much. Best regards, Shinzo
I don't have an IL47 but I have a shielded and not shielded IL33 and an IL34 that are all like Shinzos left side pic. I have been wondering for a long time how to tell a 33 tank from a 47. However, doesn't apply all the time.
@Ian Bingham @Tony Press @pete sav @Anthony @Mackburner I agree with "doesn't apply all the time". I believe this is true for other manufacturers' models as well. If I were in charge of parts management at a factory, when new parts are introduced due to minor product changes, I would keep a certain number of old parts in stock for customers, but otherwise I would try to reduce inventory by using them for new products. I may be wrong, but the above could be the reason why old parts are often used for a while after a new product is introduced. As I was writing this, a question came to mind. I believe the IL47 was introduced in the late 1940s, but did the IL33 continue to be sold until the introduction of the IL47? Or was the IL33 sold until the end of the 1930s and the first half of the 1940s was a blank period? Best regards, Shinzo
Blank period is the right phrase for catalogues and production. War time paper is very rare and it is easy to speculate. The IL33 is mentioned in a 1940 instruction book. I have virtually nothing from 1940 to 1946.
from Jim Dick's book: Regarding the IL 33. "This number remained until after the War, first as IL33/45 and then as IL47" (p56). Cheers Tony
Tilley's naming system seems to be a bit hit-and-miss. For example the R1 range extends across several iterations - as does the X246 with quite different tanks and hoods. Quite why/when Tilley decided to change a name to, say, X246A when it could have retained the plain X246 or even better issued with a fresh reference altogether is a bit of a mystery. Going back to the IL33, it would be curious if Tilley renamed it to IL33/45 and/or IL47 mid-production with no manufacturing changes. It makes a bit more sense if production of the IL33 had been suspended and then restarted in, say 1945. But who knows.
As far as I can see, the only mention of the IL33/45 is in this catalogue. Does anyone know of another reference ???
I haven’t found the IL33/45 elsewhere, either. @Mackburner has the IL45 listed in the Pressure Lamp Catalogue as: “Post-WWII IL33. Short socket for GF cock. Black tank. Hand shaped heat reflector. Catalogued by Tilley as IL33/45”. Tony
@Tony Press @Anthony @Ian Bingham @podbros Thank you for all the information and opinions. I found 1941 and 1946 instructions in the Reference Library and IL33 was mentioned in both. So, this might prove that IL33 was still being sold in the first half of the 1940s. Combining this with the information you have provided, we might end up with something like this: 1) IL33 was still being sold in the first half of the 1940s. 2) The name was changed to IL33/45 around 1945/46, but the tank color remained black. 3) Renamed to IL47 around 1947/48, and the tank color changed to gold. Please note that the above is a bit speculative. In addition, I'd like to hear the opinions of @pete sav and @Mackburner. Best regards, Shinzo
@Tony Press @Anthony @Ian Bingham @podbros @pete sav @Mackburner. Oh, that's great to hear. Thank you so much, Neil. Once again I have learned from you. Regards, Shinzo
On the matter of the "figure 8" brass hanging attachments and their appearance or not in catalogues. Going through the paperwork here on CPL and some in my possession: 1. The figure 8 fittings appear on the IL 33 in paperwork from early 1930 into early 1940s. 2. Then, the IL 33/45 is illustrated without the figure 8 fittings (as in @Anthony's illustration above) in the mid 1940s. 3. Then in the early 1950s (or as early as 1949), the IL 47 is illustrated without the figure 8 fittings, along with the first version of the Tilley X246 Guardsman (1949 -1953). 4. Then in 1955 the IL 47 was illustrated with the figure 8 fittings along with the second variation of the cage on the Tillley X246 Guardsman, in this catalogue posted by @pete sav: https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/1955-tilley-cat.421/. Noting that catalogue illustrations are often misleading, and the CPL Library and my paperwork far from comprehensive, it does point to the possibility that there could be IL33/45s and IL 47s without the figure 8 fittings. But there are none in the Reference Gallery. Tony
@Tony Press @Anthony @Ian Bingham @podbros @pete sav @Mackburner. Thank you Tony, for pointing out a possibility. If the illustrations are to be believed, it is possible that there was a time when the figure-8 loops were not installed. On the other hand, it may be necessary to consider the authenticity of the illustration itself. When I do research, I try to get as much support as possible from official documents such as catalogs and parts lists, but I generally try to be suspicious of illustrations. That's something Neil taught me over 20 years ago. Of course, I'm a bad student. My observations of Tilley donut lamps are limited, but I have never seen an example without the figure-8 loops. Pete, who has observed donut lamps far more than I have, says that all the donuts I have seen have the figure-8 links to the suspension gear. It's often difficult to find a 100% answer when researching vintage lamps, but in this case, wouldn't it be that the illustration lacked accuracy? Regards, Shinzo
@gkpllantern I can think of a good image on a leaflet for a Tilley x410a where the hood/vent is different from the actual item..hang on.. Thanks to @Anthony for the image
Images are always potentially misleading. In general the first listing of a new model is likely to be correct but any subsequent catalogues could, and often did, use old images. Just look at these pages from the 1957 catalogue which shows the do-nuts with pre and post 1940 feed tubes and cocks. Did they really make them as shown? Maybe they did but I have my doubts. ::Neil::
I think we’d have to assume on the balance of probabilities, that until an IL 47 turns up without the figure 8 fittings, but with genuine alternative fittings, the illustrations are probably wrong. Cheers Tony
