New discoveries… identification needed :)

Sooooo… despite my self-imposed ban on buying more lamps I have been weak! On visiting a scrapyard in Buxton I found this pair… there were others but these two were the ones that grabbed me.

The Tilley X246a is stamped 663 - so I’m guessing a June 1963 model. Happily I don’t have one like this in the collection. It’s actually in incredible nick - don’t let the dust and old kerosene stain fool you. All the parts seem to have little to no wear, so I’m anticipating a speedy return to service.

The other one is a bit of a mystery - is it a veritas? It came with the extra tubing (pictured) which I’m hoping is not part of the lamp and was a whopping £5 which is why I grabbed it (The Tilley was 15) . Given that I have absolutely NO dealings with this flavour of lamp before all advice is most welcome… for info too the base seems to be finished in a military green - although I can’t find a broad arrow (or any makers mark / stamp at all…) over to you guys

best, Chris

 

Yes, Veritas 350 and the tube fits in the hole in the cage base and on top of the burner. They are a nice lantern and have a proper shutoff valve (black knob). Seals/washers etc will need checking and most likely replacing. Lots of information on site about Veritas.
Ask specific questions as you restore it and many experienced folk will reply.

 

Thank you… as I say there was another similar Veritas there with a polished tank and Esso decal but a lot of bits missing and a battered Coleman but these two took my eye. There’s probably more there - the whole place is a mass of junk! As it happens I did a test fit on the pipe and not great. The whole thing bar the tank has been very crudely repainted too… A full strip down is needed on this one… still, I’m glad it’s not going in the smelter

C

 

If the other Veritas wasn't too much money I'd buy it and either sell it (to me!) of keep it for parts. No, definitely sell it to me!

 

@Automedon , hi there, your Veritas is very cool they do clean up well, not everything needs to be over shiny. You will find plenty of threads in the lantern gallery, I have posted a few, do read up about them.
When you get to light it up.
Long peerless type mantle it helps with a longer length of vaporisation to gas.
Long preheat with the meth bowl. Hours of fun. Either the sun in a jar

 

Thank you… a quick trawl shows that Base Camp does the seal kit so I’ll get one of those at some point. I’ve a couple of Tilleys in the pipeline including a lovely x246a that someone had lovingly covered in pink (yes pink) household emulsion.

One thing with the Veritas - is there a strip down order for this and also where all the seals go. First time on one of these and it looks more complex than a Tilley - especially with that cam! A quick check shows that it has a working pricker though so not wild about disassembling that tbh. Removing without disturbing would be preferred… really looking forwards to using it though and I have some lovely vintage Veritas mantles that will go on a treat

 

@Automedon , sounds like you may have it under control. The pricker assembly is easy to deal with. The Veritas likes a very clean fuel system. Check the pricker is clearing the jet. Check that the pricker cam is clean, the pricker rod is spotless, the inside of the vaporiser is spotless. A clear fuel to vapour is what also makes the Veritas work. Hope this helps

 

@Automedon
All classic lamps are fundamentally evil devices. The more attractive and alluring to you they appear, the more evil they are.
You have missed another chance to escape from the addiction again. We have all fallen victims to their certain charms, one way or another.
They will soak up your money, attention, time and love. They will eventually become so irresistable that you would just willingly fall for them, one after another.
Worse, the effects on their victims manifest into an unimaginably wide variety of personal cravings and obsessions. You know you are already too deep into the abyss when you start to guide and encourage others to join in the 'fun'.
I have since kept all my lanterns in the dark attic which can only be accessed with a ladder. I have also kept the ladder as far away as possible from the attic's only entrance.

 

This may help.

 

Thank you people... I'll keep you all posted when I start. I need to drill out a burner spigot for a Tilley first alas... but yes, am looking forwards to trying to get this rather sad specimen to its former glory.

@Sedgman this is really helpful. My only query is really how to remove the vapouriser. The way I'm seeing this is - remove burner tubing, unscrew nut above meths cup so that presumably becomes loose and lifts up, and the vapouriser lifts out with that and the pricker? Then remove control cock, associated nut and cage... the more I look at it the more obvious it seems. Apologies for the questions, I just want to make sure I get it right

Thanks all once again... what a great community this is

C

 

You pretty much have it correct. The nut shown on the vapouriser has to be undone but the spirit cup is a press fit over it so it can be pulled up to allow you to fully get at the retaining nut. The small nut shown in the photo above the spirit cup is the cage retaining nut and that sits on a small stud on the valve assembly.

Veritas components are a mess to categorise on a timeline, and sometimes the stud on the valve assembly that the second small nut fits on, also unscrews, and other times it does not and on some models there is no nut but a small bolt with a flattened head. There is still an outstanding issue too for Veritas collectors on how to correctly categorise the Model 350s that have a horizontal pump (yours is the more common type with the angled pump).

 

A couple further pointers: the pricker main rod has a thread on the bottom and has to be unscrewed not just lifted out. Also, when you get to removing the pricker control shaft it can take some patience and some loosening spray and a little force and sometimes a bit of quick heat. A good Veritas post for further reference to note is the one from @ROBBO55

Veritas 350 (2/1952)

Good luck

 

Thank you once again people. I’ll be starting work shortly. In the meantime I’ve had a proper look at the x246a - the bulk of the muck cleaned off beautifully with a mix of surgical spirit and meths - the only eyesore is some verdigris at the base. As this will be a user though I’m not too concerned about that.

Soooo… could I help myself. No I could not and following a full clean up and seal change I dusted off a vintage Tilley mantle and test fired. One satisfying pop and lovely roar later and a June 63 Tilley is back in action.

Pics of the burner below..I suspect that proper to today she had only been fired up once. No soot or carbon in the hood and no wear at all on the burner tubes and nuts etc… very very pleased with this!

 

You've done it again. Congratulations for bringing the X246A back to functioning form. It is a pity that Tilley discontinued its production. These must be among the last of the desirable ones.

 

That's a very nice condition burner. I quite like the X246As although they do have a base plate prone to distorting. The last of the real quality rolled off the production line in October 1957 which is the month they inverted the base plates so every subsequent lantern has a delicate base which will dish down if the lamp is over pumped. ::Neil::

 

Quick update on the Veritas which had been stripped down as far as possible today. Note the green paint (almost like a Brunswick green) on the base and around the centre - original?

This lamp has seen a lot of wear - note the worn control cock thread - and the centre brass housing is firmly seized into the tank - it’s being soaked in wd40 right now as is the screw for the pricker which is also refusing to move, I suspect heat will be needed.

Anyway… here’s where we are. I suspect that under that awful coat of black, entirely paint stripper resistant paint, there’s a nice green hood and cage etc…

 

@Automedon , hi there
You’re doing a great job on the 350 Veritas. You can follow some threads in the lantern gallery they will assist you.
The hood looks worse for wear but the enamel is tough stuff you can use paint stripper if that’s required, ultrasonic bath may help. The frame may clean up but it may not clean up tone shiny so I have used ultra high temperature paint silver/aluminium colour it works a treat.
The top frame will clean up, use your grit blaster also on the meth bowl , air tubes. Vaporiser you can polish them up after.
Grit blast the tank, prime and repaint.
Veritas internal fuel system work best when very clean. Depends on how far you are going to take it, I’ve removed the fuel pick up assembly given them a very thoroughly good cleaning inside and out, the oscillator and rod, care to be taken when dealing with the pricker and jet. The tank look inside for rusting or other build up. Use a few nuts and rattle shake te tank a few times to clear . I hope this helps you restore your what will be a very cool Veritas 350. Hours of fun

 

Looks like you're doing a good thorough job there! Darry's advice is spot on and when fettled Veritas 350's make great, reliable lanterns... as do the later Superbs. If you need any parts and can't find anything on eBay, I've probably got a few bits knocking around the workshop.

Most of my 350's and Superbs do this 'thing' where they pretty much light themselves! After 30 seconds or so of preheating, there's enough heat build up to start vaporising the kero in the vaporising tube which then lights the mantle and away it goes... open the shut-off valve and it's fully alight! Incredible! I did some tests with mine and found it happens between 20 - 40 seconds into the preheat. I may have been lucky but others have noticed the same 'trick' with theirs.

 

@Darryl Durdin @ColinG

It's a lot of fun to clean up - under that black paint the enamelled hood is in excellent condition on both sides with minimal staining, no rust and no chips. I'm having the frame shot blasted as well as the lower part of the hood. Then I'll be following your lead and spraying those two parts high-temperature silver.

I've looked at the tank and I'll respray that to its original green as it's quite an attractive colour. There's no Veritas diamond stamp on the tank - it must have been purely a decal - and I can't date it until the crud is blown off the frame.

The only minor irritation is that the small screw to hold on the pricker arm is frozen in and will have to be heated and the actual control cock / pricker assembly that screws onto the tank is also solid and will need heating... BUT... the $64,000 question is does that assembly always unscrew on all Veritas 350s or are some permanently fixed on? I don''t want to try and unscrew something that's not supposed to unscrew at all and knacker the whole shooting match.

Apart from that and sourcing a handle and glass, I'm loving it... and it makes a change from Tilley's

Best,

Chris

 

Hi @Automedon
Looks like you got some great bargains there.. amazing what folks throw away??

regards,
pb

 

Quick aside … stripping the main tube between the vaporiser and the burner shows that the metal underneath is stainless steel. As the tank filler is also stainless steel does this indicate a later period of manufacture? Everybody else’s seems to be brass… pfffft

C

 

Quick update … here’s the Veritas hood post stripping. Cage and hood are about to be gently blasted to remove the heatproof paint. As you can see… hardly a scratch or mark, wonder why it was so heavily coated?

Also…. In a big bag of bits I’ve got these - what looks a touch like a Tilley control cock but not a design I’ve seen before and an extra long vapouriser. Any idea what these are off, and happy to pass on if anyone needs them as I don’t…

best, Chris

 

@Automedon
There may be some nickel plating left on the metal part of the hood which you might want to keep?
Why not try gently heating to see if it bubbles off first? You can maybe increase the heat to remove it perhaps?

If you get some 0000 gauge steel wool and some autosol, with care you will be able to remove the rust marks on the enamel .

I think @JEFF JOHNSON knows about the control tap

regards,
pb

 

The vapouriser is the Tilley 169 vapouriser, same cp as the 606, used on lamps and lanterns before 1945, and on many models after then.

The control cock is a GF control cock part 777, introduced in 1940 and used on many lamps and lanterns.

See here:

https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/how-to-recognise-parts-for-your-tilley.1520/

and here:

https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/tilley-lamps-an-easy-guide-for-spare-parts.10554/


Tony

 

Hiya, I have tried boiling but no joy… also paint panther, nitromors and strupit. Whatever it is it makes Bialaddin maroon seem positively easy to remove … believe me when I say mild blasting is a last resort. It’s, erm, rather resilient. Still, hopefully it’ll have preserved the metal underneath.

Also… any answer to the control valve query above - ie does it have to come off? And do they always come off? Or are some fixed permanently? And finally, does anyone have a spare Veritas handle I can buy off them please

In terms of the parts - I’ll restore the control cock then but the long vapouriser is really no good to me. Free to a good home

C

 

Hi @Automedon
I meant heat from a paint/ heat gun that should sort it or a blow lamp?

the control tap is a wwll model with the threaded part for the gland made of steel.. you can see the rust there +
the original paint still present , possibly an Air Ministry lamp or heater.
The brass knob should unscrew.. r/hand thread..
Good of you to offer the 169, we all say ‘ no more’ but you may find a heater at your scrap yard???

cheers

 

The cock valve looks to be Kayen, as it has that sort of brass knob

 

The link below shows information about Tilley control cocks and the one which you have is a WW2., Military specification control cock, which has a brass knob and the thread which the gland nut screws onto is made from steel.

Automedon

8 Tilley control cocks

 

Thank you @JEFF JOHNSON that’s really interesting. Just as a matter of interest, could you fit that to an x246b?

best, Chris

 

Hello Chris, you are welcome and the answer to your question is yes. Skol fae Jeff.

Automedon