Petromax 829B is it original?

The Preston Loop pretty much extends the range of usable non-volatile fuels from kero to diesel.
A straight gen would most likely fail when it comes to vaporizing straight diesel.

 

But you know what?...using a Preston Loop on a Petromax 829B isn't really considered 'fair'
You'd be turning it back to its 'primodial beast form'. That's almost like using steroids in atheletics .
As a matter of fact, it'd become essentially an 829.
Besides getting it to burn well, it is also part of a collector's quest to keep it as original as possible.
That's to say, it'd be nice if you are able to ultimately make it work as an 829B.

 

It would be nice, but I think ive exhausted everything besides using gas.

 

I was just thinking,
Aren't those small coleman vaporizers considered consumable? The benefit of the large petromax vaporizer is that it isn't as much it a wear item and can be easily cleaned, right?

Maybe the petromax vaporizer takes longer to carbon up due to its large size vs the coleman. Any thoughts?

 

Vaporizers, generators, all considered "consumable" in the eyes of the manufacturer. Back in the day if a generator or vaporizer got "tired" You'd stop by at your local hardware/department store and buy a replacement and stock up on spares and the worn component discarded without batting an eye.

Petromax vaporizers being more voluminous and having the heat absorbing component (the loop) being further away from the mantle keeps the boiling kerosene from "scorching" into black deposits like overheated butter on a skillet. In turn they have longer hours before replacement is necessary.

Straight Coleman style generators tend to have their mantles very close to them so they end up rapidly caking up with carbon. The close proximity ensures max vaporization efficiency at the cost of time before replacement.

There is a tradeoff between the two in the age of us collectors.

Preston loops while having longer intervals between servicing are notoriously difficult to decoke as it requires creative ways to remove the deposits in the loop section. Like a frayed brake cable threaded into it.

Coleman, while having shorter intervals, are extremely easy to clean up, requiring very basic tools like a pipe brush.

 

You should eventually try running it with its intended fuel: benzin or gasoline at least once. With the straight generator of course.
That's on provision you are already absolutely confident that it won't unexpectedly spring a leak. And of course, when you are already very well aquainted to all its behavior during operation.

Getting it to burn kero well with its original straight vaporizer is an added bonus that not too many had experienced with a Petromax.

 

@MYN

I'd still be terrified, reading the reports on the BW experience with 829B is terrifying. You have to vent the fuel rich air from the fount for it to reliably shut down, There will still be a flame present until there is zero pressure.

 

Certainly true.
However, there are ways to sort of overcome that...at least to some extents.
Like...covering your hand and the filler cap/vent screw outlet with a piece of water-dampened rag while slowly releasing the pressure. Any escaping air and fuel vapour would safely disperse under the damp rag and be unlikely to ignite. Even if it does, the flame is pretty much brief and feeble. There won't be any pooled gasoline to sustain a real fire.
I've done that frequently enough, although that doesn't warrant me recommending it to someone else.

Nevertheless, the risk of the pump nrv failing during operation cannot be ruled out no matter how well-behaved it had been in previous light ups. It is certainly much more dangerous. A piece of rubber pip that is in continuous immersion under gasoline would eventually fail.
Or its holder might get stuck, causing the pip not to 'seat-seal'. There's certainly more that one way that nrv alone could fail. Usually, when you least expected it.

 

@MYN,
So if the NRV fails, there will be a rapid release of pressure through the pump tube? Britelyt does sell a viton seal for it. Of course that could still fail, but they are easily replaced. Maybe a good solution is to replace the seals once a year.

 

The NRV is submerged in the fuel, unlike a Coleman which uses a snorkel for their pump.

This means if the pip fails, fuel will literally spill and leak out around the pump stem. A precaution to take is to leave the pump unlocked on the petromax while in operation. If the pip starts to fail, You'll see the pump start rising out the tube from the pressure and you'll know to start taking action to extinguish.

 

I didn't know you could do that. I may try the gas tonight knowing I can do it safely.

 

@Gilbert

Still wouldn't say "Safe"

In this context, The rising pump is more of a danger sign that things will probably get exciting very quick. It makes more sense with kerosene as they're less volatile so you don't happen find your lantern running WHILE sitting in a puddle of kerosene.

 

I'll keep a bucket of water ready. I'll try the Amish mix since I've already got kerosene on the fount.

 

1/4 CF to Kerosene for starters if using Amish mix.

 

No! Repeat, No!

Do not use water to attempt to put out a gasoline or kerosene fire [I think they are called Class B fires in the United States]. Using water runs the very high risk of spreading the flames because... the fuel floats on water.

The empty bucket can be inverted over the burning lantern to starve the flames of oxygen - much more useful than having it filled with water.

It really is important to understand the fundamentals of what you are working with. I suggest you get a fire blanket and an appropriate fire extinguisher.


Tony

 

Good save, thank you Tony.

 

Looking at the mantle it isn’t near enough to the vapouriser



I think if you have a different shaped one, more bulbous like the one that @MYN showed here it would be much nearer to the vapouriser…



I am guessing that the use of the quick lighting torch has distorted the mantle ..

 

@MYN
Did you mention which mantle you're using? I didn't find the name in your post about it.

@podbros
It certainly does look like the rapid has blown the mantle away from the vaporizer.

 

At 25% CF it still has a slight halo of fire. But it is much improved over straight kerosene. The mantle brightens and dims every now and then. It could be the wind today.

 

The mantle can be any coarse-weaved Petromax-styled ones.
Petromax 'Superior' mantles are available.
Britelyt should have those.
Or any China-made ones like Butterfly, Egret, Anchor, etc
Many other brands too.

 

If you increase the portion of gasoline or Coleman Fuel above 25%, it is better to light the lantern outside the house, preferably in an opened space as a start.

 

Please be safe.

 

@Gilbert
Remember that you'd be making the fuel more flammable by adding CF.
If you are already familiar with burning CF or gasoline, you'd know the difficulty of extinguishing its flame in the open.
Do not use water as advised.
Remember that this isn't a Coleman where the risk level had been minimized by the inventors by design.

 

@MYN @Gilbert

This is also why the Bundeswher also put out a bulletin shortly after the 829B was adopted, that all B variants are to switch to Kero vaporizers and burn Kero only with written instructions emphasizing such.

 

Right now I'm not planning on increasing the gas percentage in the kerosene. I'm sure it would run even better on pure CF.

I will dilute the CF in the mixture once I get the new vaporizer by adding more kerosene.

 

Wise move.
Always bear in mind that the fount on this Petromax had been repaired by the previous owner. Was there a leak on fount earlier? Did you remove the patch work and re-do it?
If that's the case, you'd know the intergrity of the fount had been compromised from the start.

 

@MYN
I removed the old patchwork and found nothing but one large dent and some small ones. Whatever he used to patch it with came off easily after I soaked it in acetone.

 

Good to know. I suppose it was just a filler for the dent.
Whatever ratio you're using for the Amish mix, it is a good idea to burn a sample out in the open to assess its flammability level.
That'd give you an idea of its characteristics and how to overcome any possible mishaps resulting from any leakage.

 

If I've not mistaken, I think I've read from somewhere that the real reason cited by the German military about the withdrawal of the usage of gasoline on such lanterns had not so much to do with petrol's flammability or any associated explosion risks.

If I'm not wrong, it was during a time when the fuel was leaded petrol. It was something about the health and toxicity hazards posed to the troops as a result of burning leaded gasoline during lantern operation.

Historically, leaded gasoline had been used on other lanterns besides the Petromax.
From past experiences by many, there would eventually be solid lead compounds being deposited on the lantern parts. Example, the burner, mantle and the glass globe, etc...
This had all negatively affected the actual lantern operations. On the mantles, it caused a significant reduction in light output. In addition, the leaded compounds would fuse at relatively low temperatures and behave like a fluxing agent to cause the otherwise refractory mantle material to fuse prematurely. The result, greatly reduced lifespans of the mantles.
On the glass globe, the deposits interfere with light transmittance.

 

@Gilbert
Instead of using kerosene on the lantern, substitute it with odourless mineral spirits.
Example: Klean Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits.
It has a lower boiling temperature range than regular 1-K kerosene.
Its lower boiling point is 318°F and the upper is 354°F. Pretty narrow range.
Flash point is >105°F, which is relatively safe while not being too high to cause ignition difficulties.
It should perform better than kero with a straight vaporizer.
Way safer than burning gasoline or CF on a Petromax.