Ok... I'm carrying this over from the stove forum but someone told me there and in a few discussions they were talking about using BBQ lighter fluid (like Kingsford brand) in a kerosene stove. I thought it sounded crazy but I've tried it in a few kerosene stoves and it burns very well in the stoves I have and will not light from the vapor when releasing the pressure. Burns really nice and blue... No soot... Has anyone tried this in a kero pressure lamp? My stove an hour ago running BBQ charcoal lighter fluid....
This type of conversation is always heavily influenced (and confused) by the user’s country of origin (local names, products, even the meaning of some of the English words used). So I would go back to basics: 1. What is the fuel you are using (not what it’s called). To find that out, find the MSDS for the fuel. 2. Compare that MSDS to kerosene: actual kerosene such as that used in jet engines or a product refined as kerosene (not sold retail as kerosene). Find the MSDS for that refined kerosene. Compare the two. 3. Kerosene stoves were designed to run efficiently on kerosene. Ditto lamps and lanterns. Therefore it follows that they should run efficiently and (relatively) safely on kerosene, and that non-kerosene fuels may present operational problems. That’s why I know that the fuel I’m using is kerosene. It could be that your Kingsford brand BBQ lighter fluid is kerosene… Tony
@Tony Press this is what it is... You think it actually is kerosene? https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp...sford-Odorless-Charcoal-Lighter-Bilingual.pdf
Looks like it is the same as Aviation fuel: 64742-47-8 | CAS DataBase I wish I could buy it here in the UK
In Poland they tried and it worked. I personally did not. I agree with Tony post above - Polish stuff may differs from US, UK, others. Different product, names, translations, components, lack of MSDS etc. etc. so I expect there is plenty of variables to verify. all the best, Piotrek
@Remus1956 What I suggested, because of the different ways different countries use English, and have different legal systems, reporting requirements etc, is that you find something in the USA that you know is kerosene and compare your "other product" to the known kerosene. Don't assume that every other country in the world uses "American" to describe its products. But by way of comparison to what you have linked above to what I know is kerosene in Australia, here are measures that can be compared between your "Clorox" data and what I know is kerosene in Australia: C for Clorox; V for Viva Energy (--> "Shell" in Australia) C: Petroleum distillates, hydrotreated light CAS No 64742-47-8 100% V: Kerosine (petroleum), CAS No 8008-20-6 100% NOTE: Different CAS numbers; Different descriptions (Light v Kerosine. NOTE: other retailed kerosene in Australia, is described as "Heavy" and has very similar characteristics to the Viva Energy kerosene used in the comparison below) C: Flash point ~40C V: Flash point 38 - 55C C: Boiling point/range No Data [I find it strange this is not required] V: Boiling point/range 150-300C C: Autoignition Not Available [I find it strange this is not required] V: Autoignition > 200C I make no judgment on what your "Odorless Charcoal Lighter Fluid" is. Tony
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm @Tony Press Again thank you for the extensive response and time from your day. Well reviewing your email its just going to press me more to see if I can get better information but doubt I will be able to get better than that MSDS. My own "testing" just ran some of the kingsford in a stove and boiled a few pots of water one after the other and see if I can get the stove to light from the escaping vented vapor and could not get it to light even with a torch. Whole top of the tank was hot to touch too. I have a stove that I know needs a jet and waiting for the replacement jet in the mail (burns with orange tips and will slightly soot a pot). Interesting that when run on this stuff it does not soot and runs blue. I have a carbon monoxide tester about 3 feet away from it that has not gone off but will if I just put a small amount of fuel in a bowl and light it which burns and smokes. I may never really know whats in it...maybe I will chock this up to "it works in it" and keep it as possibilities type of thing. It does not have the same smell as K1 kerosene, but is a smell I immediately recognize as "bbq fluid" @Fireexit1 hey man...long time! Yeah its pretty cheap here, I can get a large container over a liter for a few dollars here, americans (coming from my Slovak wife's perspective) are "grilling all the time" haha...she laughs when I will even go out in the rain to grill @Piotrek Hey man! Well by what @Fireexit1 mentioned the kingsford looks like Aviation Fuel based on the CAS number. Might have a winner there! 64742-47-8 | CAS DataBase
Yes, lots of times. I used to get it at Wilko and it was particularly cheap when they were clearing the shelves at the end of BBQ season (usually mid-late August) to make way for the Halloween, Guy Fawkes and Christmas tat. Alas no more - RIP Wilko...
@David Shouksmith Oh do tell? Which lamp? I am thinking of getting in a Bialaddin 300x or a Tilley...curious if you have used in either?
@Remus1956 , The Kingsford Odorless Charcoal Lighter fluid having the CAS No. 64742-47-8 is basically a type of odourless mineral spirits. It has the same cas number as what is in Klean Strip's Odorless Mineral Spirits.(MSDS attached). Although their cas numbers are the same, you should not assume that both would have the same exact physical characteristics. Nevertheless, you can still refer to the attached Klean Strip's product MSDS as a rough guide if you're interested in the boiling range, autoignition temperature, etc. It will not have the charactetistic 'kerosene odour'. To many, it is almost 'odourless'. Its sulphur content is negligible. Unlike regular 1-K kerosene, it is almost devoid of aromatics and olefins. Like Coleman Fuel, it is near entirely aliphatics / alkanes except that it has a higher boiling range. It is more chemically stable than regular kerosene and would likely have a much longer shelf life. Compared to kerosene, it is somewhat less likely to undergo thermal pyrolysis in the generator. For well tuned kero-fueled devices, and with all operating parameters remaining consistent, it'd burn somewhat cleaner than regular kerosene. In some ways it is less likely to cause coking in the generator/vaporizer. It burns well in pressure lamps and stoves. Its upper boiling point is lower than that of kero. If the price and availability is favourable, I'd use it in place of kerosene in kero-fueled devices.
Klean Heat mainly contains a substance with the exact same cas no. 64742-47-8. However, if you further observe the physical properties stated in its MSDS, you'd find that its boiling range is somewhat higher than that of KleanStrip's odorless mineral spirits. It is therefore a little less flammable and would certainly be safer on something like a Perfection Heater. It shows that you can still have different products (even from the same manufacturer or brand), that basically contain substance with the same cas number but differing physical properties. This generic substance is essentially classified as an 'isoparaffinic hydrocarbon'. It is also, a complex mixture of aliphatic hydrocarbons. This substance isn't a naturally occuring petroleum compound or mixture but instead, purely synthesized and blended. An example would be Exxon-Mobil's Isopar-M. The differing boiling ranges for the different products is mainly due to deliberate different percentages of their constituents. The following attachment pretty much shows what the basic constituents are:-
@MYN Is kleanheat an ideal fuel for pressure lamps in place of kerosene? Since it has a higher boiling and flash point, this would mean it's less susceptible to pyrolysis and carbonization inside vaporizers and generators if I understand this correctly.
Klean Heat works fine as a fuel substitute as far as kero-fueled pressure lamps are concerned. I can't say if it is the ideal fuel but it certainly has a lot of favorable traits that one would wish for a fuel that is comparable to kerosene in terms of flammability, energy content, etc. It is nearly odourless. No aromatic suspected carcinogens. No olefins to promote gum formation. It is supposed to be entirely aliphatic, saturated hydrocarbons or paraffinic(alkanes) in the chemical sense. A higher flash and boiling range do not make it less susceptible to pyrolysis. Pyrolysis depends more on the ease with which the molecular bonds within the substance breaks apart under elevated temperatures in the absence of oxygen. Larger, more complex, branched molecules have higher tendencies compared to simpler molecules. During pyrolysis of a substance, the molecules break apart to form compounds which have both lower and higher vaporization points than the original substance. While those with lower boiling points would vaporize off from the generator without issues, the ones with higher boiling points than the original substance would likely be left within the gens to eventually carbonize and become hard coke. Thus, a foul-up. Due to its lower chemical reactivity, Klean Heat, in my opinion, would outlast regular kerosene in terms of storage. It has a somewhat higher thermal stability would therefore less prone than kerosene to foul up the generators of pressure lamps and stoves. However, when it comes to long term, fuel economics and availability would still dictate the scenario.
@MYN Hey man...merry christmas! Thanks for the very detailed explanation. Just for my own testing ive been trying it out in all things i have that are kero, and was quite surprised at the performance. Its a pretty cheap fuel here, a lot of times it goes on sale after big holidays and is literally sold everywhere. As I stated before going places like yosemite you will see at the entrances to camp sites a few bottles (along with half used propane and isobutane canisters...coleman fuel) sitting on a donation table by those who dont want to haul it home. I take the bbq fluid and use it for a lot of stuff other than grilling as it takes off carbon and generally cleans parts as well (funny...just like kerosene) but I prefer the smell more than when burning kero. On average right now...its going for about $4 per liter and thats not a sale price...just the price I would get it for at walmart or whatever.
As Mr. S mentioned previously, Wilko (formerly Wilkinsons) was always a good hunting ground for reduced barbecue fluid.. sorely missed :/ Have tried this one from Home Bargains but not that cheap compared to 4ltr containers .. ok now and then if you are stuck p
