Hi all, I like the Aladdin PL-1 and have successfully fettled two of them into full and fiery operation. But one I have on my bench now is giving me fits. I’ve cleaned and replaced everything (including the not one but two pips—one in the pump tube and one in the fuel valve—but now darn it all, even with a new generator all that passes is air. Quite a strong jet of air, but no fuel. Thinking that the spring-loaded pip on the end of the valve stem might not be springing up to close off the air tube, I pumped it up without the valve installed (thumb over valve body opening), I get exactly the same result /UNLESS i let my thumb off the valve, let off a little pressure/fuel there . . . Then the fuel starts from the generator for a little while, until presumably whatever fuel I let into the valve body is discharged. Valve body channels and orifices are good. Tiny F/A tube clear. Big fuel tube clear but a PO removed the fiber wadding or packing, so it’s now just a big open tube. Suggestions on this welcome. This one is a head scratcher and I would normally look for blockages. I’m wondering if the lack of packing in the fuel tube has something to do with it (?), but can’t figure out why that would be. Thanks in advance, Ulf.
Just read your post on the Aladdin. Will be curious as to what you find. I have two of them at this time. Bought one from a from the Coleman collectors forum and the other off of the last stricker auction. They are in the queue to be fettled. Had no idea they had pips. Good to see you are still around and playing with the lanterns.
They have two pips — one in the removable NRV at the base of the pump tube, and one where you’d least expect—on a spring-loaded cup at the end of the fuel valve itself. Presumably the latter pip extends and seals off the air tube once the thing’s been lit and the fuel valve is opened fully. I have found that since most lanterns seem to have their fuel valves fully closed while not in use—for many decades in some cases—that the spring that extends the fuel valve pip-cup has been compressed for so long that it’s taken a set and will not extend the pip with enough force to seal off the air tube. This is a problem b/c it appears that this rather complex assembly was brazed together from a few pieces, and thus replacing that little spring is, well, impossible without extreme measures. The upshot of the above is that if that pip doesn’t seal, you get a lovely air flow but I have yet to find a way to burn air. It’s a design that really does cause one to wonder if Aladdin intended them only to have a relatively short service life. They also have two gaskets that seal the integrated pump tube/NRV; these will almost certainly require replacement. Because they are odd sizes (OD/ID), you’ll have to make these out of Viton while you’re making some new pips, and I recommend using a soft-ish grade of Viton for everything on this lantern, because otherwise getting everything (including that fuel valve pip) to seal will be difficult. The generator is another matter, and a devilish one at that—very small diameter and prone to clogging with carbon or corrosion. If there’s a way to snake one out, I’ve not found it. If one’s been on the lantern for years, you’ll probably have to find a NOS one. Any and all tips/tricks/chants/invocations/curses as you go are appreciated. When one does get one of these running, they are very quiet, very bright, and are the only lantern I know that can use either kero or white gas without any preheating required for the kero. You just slide a tab over one of the air intakes if using kero, and free it up if using gasoline. Or maybe it’s the other way around, I can’t recall now. When you do get it running, use a large mantle—a globe shape like a Petromax style HK500 or a sock shape like the Coleman 1111 to keep the generator hot enough to avoid pulsing, especially with kero. Make sure you have the air tab/intake plug in the correct position, too! Good luck with it! All I can say after having been through four of these (with a 50% terminal success rate) is that it’s the brand I want least to work on, mostly because NOS parts are either impossible to find or stupid expensive (donor parts being, as above, only occasionally actually usable, even if in cosmetically good condition). It’s not the kind of forgiving lantern like a Coleman that will fire right up after decades of disuse. Ulf.
Wow what a wonderful amount of info. My two appear immaculate. Don’t even see any discoloration where you would expect it. But you know how that goes. It will be some time before I delve into either one of them. At the moment I have a Thomas kerosafe 1004 being completely redone. The fount is in Alabama getting new nickle. I talked with the gentleman last night for over an hour and decided that I am going to send him the rest of the bits and peices for nickle. It should look better than new when I get it back. Will get Rob to build a new mica with the appropriate air holes in the side. Thanks again. Wonderful hearing from ya.
Sounds like you have a couple very nice examples, and likely they will come together more easily. I buy cheap and crappy ones and then drive myself crazy trying to make them work; half the time I fail, thus doubling the price I’ve paid for ‘working’ lanterns. I often think it’d be better to buy one good one than three crappy ones, but I have yet to take my own advice. Someday maybe. Though I admit that I don’t like to fire up the few really pristine lanterns I have in my small collection, and hence it’s probably better for me to buy junk. I can burn them without feeling bad about it! Good that you have a Kerosafe too. Never seen one of those! With new nickel etc it’s going to look pretty darn sharp I predict. Ulf.
@Ulf @Seansmithwfd Ulf, I'd try replacing the packing in the pickup tube. It may be the packing restricts things enough to make a difference. Make sure the pip holder in the valve stem is free. I had a hard time getting mine to move like it's supposed to. For Sean, here's a thread I did a while back on some of the different valves. Aladdin PL-1,Preway L-13 and Coleman 220 comparison - The Coleman Collectors Forum The PL-1 is a neat lantern. I think Neil McRae has referred to it as the most over-engineered GPA built. I've fount lighting with the globe and vent off is the easiest way to prevent a fireball and lots of soot. If you have the metal piece from an original mantle a Petromax 500CP mantle works well in the PL-1.
Hey guys, thanks for the replies and Cottage Hill Bill, you are pure class! That thread is super. Well, you both are pure class, but CHB’s thread is pretty killer. On this my latest/last(?) PL-1 love-hate relationship, the valve stem pip holder is pretty free (no obvious corrosion or binding) BUT it just feels like the spring is tired and thus doesn’t have as much ‘snap’ to it. I’ve boiled it and Kroiled it, and I am fast coming to the same conclusion you did—that the missing packing in the fuel tube has something to do with restricting the flow of air once the valve is fully open to allow fuel to flow at full volume. This experiment with pumping it up without a valve (but with thumb over valve body) intrigues me as some kind of weird pneumatic/hydraulic imbalance that, again, may be due to the lack of packing—like water hammer or vapor lock or whatever we used to call such things in Former Times. But I am not smart enough to know whether my conjecture has the slightest basis in fluid mechanics. Mr. McRae is right about many/most/maybe all things, and IMO he’s also spot-on about the PL-1: it is dramatically over-engineered and (I would add) to the point of idiosyncrasy. Yet that’s what also I love about this model. But I find I have to be in the right mood (= Patient, which I’m not so good at all the time) to work on one, because I know it’s going to be a slog. More comments and insights welcome! I do think that anyone here who is hungry for a challenge or wants something Completely Different to keep the hobby sufficiently maddening would enjoy working on one of these. Ulf.
Ulf. What an amazing lantern. About a ten minute fettle add fuel and performed a naked burn. Let it cool and added a peerless 500 to it and away it goes. Second one is being a little more finicky. Oiled the pump cup and can not get it to pass air through the pump. Will continued to ticker with it. Thanks to you they got moved to the front of the line after finishing the Tilley wall lamp.
Ok rookie mistake. I own it. So use to running Coleman’s and the normals. Didn’t realize this had the removable pump tube with the pip in the end. To be fair it was stuck on pretty well. Pulled it and cleaned it up. The pip was crusty. Pulled it out and found it to be supple so turned it over and it seals like new. Oh the tube seal. A gas plant seal works well. It just needs a little thinning to get it to slip in the groove. I find that the genny is not passing air so will do a heat and quench on it and see what happens. Thanks again Ulf.
The biggie is that pip in the end of the valve stem. That's what controls the air/fuel mix on start up. Make sure the pip is good and the spring works. Makes a world of difference in the behavior of these things.
Happy to hear, Seansmithwfd, that you are enjoying your PL-1s! The two I have that work, work unbelievably well, and that will be enough for me to keep working at the one that (still) isn't. I did have to set it aside though in favor of a couple of other projects that provide something more like instant gratification. This particular lantern can make us all feel like rookies! By the way, someone someplace said that he wondered if there is anything inside the tiny OD genny. Well, wonder no more, because I cut open a bad one, and here are the results. In the narrow part approaching the tip, nothing but tube. In the wider (main) part, the tube is packed with very fine fibers, which resemble the inner fibers of a Tiki Torch wick. Quite an amazing number of these fibers, when you tease them apart. See photos. Ulf.
oh, and yes, Cottage Hill Bill is correct in that the Valve Pip and Valve Pip-Spring are critical . . . the spring has to spring and the pip has to seal. I found that even a fairly soft (durometer) Viton may be too hard for the pip-spring to seal after so many years of unrelieved compression, so if you do too, try using what they used originally--cork. Just use a Boehm or other type of concentric punch and punch one out from part of a wine cork without too many fissures in it. It seals quite well with less spring pressure required and of course is impervious to kerosene.
That’s intriguing for packing. Thanks for the trick to the pip. I too set the one aside for the moment. Had a couple of 220b’s to knock out. Couple of twins with the same bday. Next up is a 316. Have the globe coming in this week and already have the info from Bruce. Just need to check a couple of things on it before ordering a cone
Good grief, Seansmithwfd, you have some terrific projects on deck! Good on you. I tried to get Bruce to work on a sweet 238B for me, but crickets. Odd since he advertises in the ICCC magazine for new clients . . . but so it goes. Ulf.
My current project is a KeroSafe something or other. And I have a sweet 1952 Col-Max (no stress crax, either!) that I'm finishing up. That's a classy lantern IMO. Ulf.
Did you say a kerosafe? Would that be a Thomas kerosafe? I have a 1004 that I am getting completely replated now. With that and a Rob butts mica it should look like it came off the assembly line.
How is your genny? Mine has the needle broken off. Tried to massage the metal tube enough to maybe pull out some more of the pricker with no success. Have an idea of taking some of my small pliers that I use on my rc aircraft to work the loop open enough to remove the whole inner genny out. Then take a 220 genny wire and mimic the loop and put back in place. Sorry if that may not have made a lot of sense. Been thinking about the how for some time, but I am just coming off of shift and we ran our butts off all night. Down side to working a 24 hour shift in ems.
Seansmithwfd, I love projects like that. Lately they're the only kind I want to take on. I haven't had mine apart yet, but when I do get to that I'll let you know about the genny. As much as it pains me to admit, I have never had great success with trying extend a pricker wire--I have found that when they start losing mass/length like that, they have become quite brittle--I suppose from many cycles of heating and cooling(?)--and the whole wire is prone to break or keep breaking. What I HAVE done when parts are made of Unobtanium is to take an appropriately sized Petromax/Radius/Primus type of screw-in needle (fits the jet/orifice of the lantern I'm working on) and sand it down/round it off to match the OD of the OEM pricker rod. Then I'll cut the top of the OEM pricker rod off, silver solder on the modified Petromax needle, and then give it a good scrub with very fine sandpaper to smooth it all out. I mean, I know it's kind of jury rigged but a) no one sees the part and b) it actually works about 80% of the time. Thank you for your service as a First Responder! Ulf.
