Enamelling Brass Hood Caps

You may have seen that I have had some reproduction brass hood caps spun for Bialaddin and Vapalux lamps. These have been successful and I now embark on another project.

I have located a vitreous enamelling company that are prepared to have a go at enamelling some of the brass that I use (vitreous enamel is usually applied to steel). I will send them some offcut pieces and they will try to enamel them for me. If the enamelling process is successful, from a bonding aspect, I will then carry out some testing.

I propose placing test pieces on lamp hoods and subjecting them to several prolonged test burns and cooling periods. If the samples hold up to this test, I then propose testing again on lamp hoods and this time sprinke drops of water to simulate rain, and see if the enamel surface can cope with that.

If all goes well, I will then ask them for a price to enamel small batches of hood caps.

Colour can be a problem as the bright yellows, orange and bright red colours of the 1950/60's contained Cadmium, which is now a banned substance in UK industry. We will have to wait and see what can be achieved, and what the cost may be. Anyway, it will be an intesting project and I would welcome any more ideas on the test procedure that I could apply.

Regards to all - Steve.

 

Steve. If they don't hold up 100% I'm not sure what the interest in 'aged' hoods would be?

Just a thought for test pieces if they're not up to scratch.

All best best.

Brian

 

Hi Brian, I am trying to replicate an acceptable replacement for a part of an old series of lamps that is nearly always nackered when we find one. I will only use very old hoods for the test runs. Very Happy New Year to you - Steve.

 

Hi
It will suit me fine and despite small variations in colour I would prefer a well-restored ex. 2827 Petromax with a new-enameled hood to a well-restored with a spotty rusty hood, so I will support and become a user.
Do you know if it is possible to repair if just a flake is missing without doing the whole hood?

 

Claus, I do not believe that repairs are possible. I think that the old enamel would need to sand blasted off and a new enamel coat applied. Other posts here have indicated that this is a very expensive process. Indeed, if my trial is successful the cost of enamelling my hoods may still be prohibitive. Steve.

 

Steve,

Good actions !
Your tests sounds good. Although I would use some more cold water to test a good cold rain.

Good replacements of hoods is always a pain in the wallet.
For some reason they always seem to be the subject of crashes, poor handling or even get lost.

So I need:
blanchard hoods,
Continental hoods,
old style petromax hoods,

 

Can Brass even be Enamelled Steve?

I thought the temperatures needed to melt the glass would melt the Brass and hence why only Steel can be enamelled?

A economical Enamelling service for hoods would be cool though as they seem to be the weak link and often look rough when the rest of the lamp is OK?

Steve.

 

Hi Steve I would be very interested in a enamel hood for my maroon Bialaddin 300x,if it is possible to enamel brass.
If not would it be possible and cost effective, to have some steel hood caps spun, for enameling

 

As far as my research goes to date; enamelling takes needs 800/850C to melt the glass "slip" which is the vitreous enamel coating, but I believe the melting temperature of brass to be about 1000C+. This is what the trial is all about. I feel sure that the commercial company that has offered to undertake the trial enamelling would not embark on such a venture (free of cost!!) if they did not think that it is achievable. We will see. This is interesting stuff. WRT to other types of hood; the tooling for spinning or pressing the different hood profiles is costly. I have concentrated so far on Vapalux/Bialaddin as they seemed to me to be the most needed in UK. Is there is a demand for other types? maybe someone could investigate that in Europe? Steel hoods would be more effectively and economically made by pressing. I have not investigated that yet. Steve.

 

Hi Steve I had a feeling steel hoods would need to be pressed, i would imagine this would be expensive and not cost effective.
And the finished product, including the enamel would be expensive.
I agree with you about the tempreture being ok for brass, as I rember when I was in the first year at secondary school, we made a enamel badge and the base metal what the enamel was coated on was copper, ok copper has a slight higher melting temperature than brass but I cant see it being a problem.
The only fly in the ointment I can think of, is that with the heat from the lantern, will the brass expand and contract more than steel, to the point where the enamel will just crack and chip off.
Your test by sprinkling water on the hot hood will solve this theory, if all is well Steve I will be putting my name down for one.
Well done Steve on all your work in these brilliant hood caps

 

Thanks Steve
I will follow this close. You have really hit a softspot here. I think everybody have rare lamps with messed-up enamel and you can fix anything almost yourself but enamel. I was surching even before I came to this beautifull CPL-site and in this
http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/emaljeskilte/2089450

you can see down under me asking nosy questions.
Its a comprehensive explanation of what enamel is but unfortunatly its on danish. Maybe you can use the Google translate to make it more digestible.

http://translate.google.com/#en/da/

best regards

Claus Carlsen

 

Hi Steve, I was just reading a old post about the subject of hoods'and having these items re enameled. Well strange around the same time as your post was in fact talking to a chap who does vitreous enameling : and we had a good old chat about removing old enamel. then I would take the hoods to him once I had done the hard task of sandblasting them ' he would then set about with the process he assured me it was the best form. And he also could add a colour for a small fee as colour needs also a special base primer, just a thought mate regards Simon.

 

Update: I am still waiting for the test pieces to come back from the Enamelling Contractor. As he has offered do do the test pieces for free, I do not want to push the pace! It was always going to be a long-term project, and that is what it is looking like right now. With regard to re-enamelling steel caps; I am trying to get away from the steel as it always will rust through again. If the brass base metal works as a good bond for the enamel, it's got to be a better long-term solution. So keep watching - Steve.

 

I dont' know will it help anyone, but I did this before:



heated in 850C. Looks great! Hard to say about costs, becouse I sanblasted in one place and enammeled in other, but I can calculate if anyone interested.

 

Another element:

when I got it:

after sandblasting:

after enammeling:

 

Hi Michael did you enamel that hood yourself 'and if so what is the set up can anyone build and bake in a home made oven or some kind of kiln to start a enamel in process regards simon.

 

If I could do this to my early guardsman brass tops, I'd definitely be interested
A tilley yellow would be ideal

Looks very good

 

starlight65 - no, I didn't, one guy did this for me. Problem is, that you need oven with 850C, so it can't be done in home oven. I paid about 5-10 euro for each part - depends on how big part is. Almost every color from RAL palette is possible. Coat can resist heat near 850C so it is perfect for lamps and this is almost the same technology that was originally used 80 years ago (some chemical parts changed - coat can't contain lead anymore). Parts have to be sandblasted before coating. Now I'm waiting for green enameled petromax hood and hanging lamp black and white reflector with all logos and text recreated - I'll share it here, but need two wait two weeks for it.

 

My enamelling expert tells me that some very bright reds, orange and yellows are no longer possible. This because EU legislation has banned the use of "Yellow Chromate" which is a vital constituent for those colours. Steve.

 

I'd heard that red was no longer possible due to toxic substances being needed. I wasn't aware that orange and yellow would be difficult too. Bu&&er! - those are three of the colours we'd probably need most...

 

Steve,

I'll ask about those colors, but I think they are based on lead (Pb) - I found here some informations: http://www.youyichemical.com/chrome-oxide-green/chrome-oxide-pigments/lead-chromate-yellow-4-1.htm

 

As I promissed - here is before and after my Hasag Polar reflector enameled:



cheers,

 

That looks like a good result Michal. What was the cost if you do not mind disclosing it? There are lots of enamelling contractors out there, but most are very expensive, especially for short production runs. I can also confirm that the very bright enamelled yellows, orange and vivid red colours do do need Yellow Chromate to achieve the correct colour. As said earlier, this is now a banned chemical in the EU. Good to hear of your success and hope to hear more. All the best - Steve.

 

Steve, it was not so bad, about 20 euros. I had to do sandblasting on my own (5 euros). I also had to draw Hasag and Polar logo in Corel Draw - they used my drawings for making templates for enamel - it took me few hours.

 

Well done my friend. I have yet to finish my project, so have no comparison of costs as yet. Thank you - Steve.

 

Steve, for comaprison I also enameled petromax hood: http://0flo.com/index.php?posts/26701 - it is green outside and black inside as oryginal. It costs me 10 euros.

cheers,

 

Great stuff podly

I'm on the hook

Plans for a self build kiln underway,

 

Longilily - thats great But I think, that oven is the easiest part of this job. I know very little about all process, but you have to have some special gun for coating enamel poweder with water mix. Different colors need different temperatures also so you need to know what color goes to oven first etc. And colors are problem also, becouse powder has different color before and after baking - white powder turns into red, yellow turns into magenta, gray into blue etc. So I think, that it is better to trust someone with experience and pay little more, then do all this on your own. But I'll be very glad if you succeed with your project

 

Mmmmmm me to gotta try these things havn't we

 

Bad news The enamel coating company has renaged on their offer to try and enamel the test pieces of brass for me; S**t! I think that when they eventually did their homework, they realised that it was not as easy as they thought! End of project for me unless I can find an amateur enameller who is willing to give the experiment a go Never mind, the caps look good in plain brass anyway steve.