Hi Just fettled this Sunflame / Akron lamp from the early 1950's. I thought it was an American Gas Machine lamp but i stand corrected. Mackburner say's In fact this is not American Gas Machine. Sun Flame Appliances are actually more Akron than AGM. SF bought out Akron in 1950 and made these Sun Flame brand lamps in Ridgefield using Akron tooling and designs for a few years before they merged with Queen Stove or King Seeley in the mid 1950s. After the mid 1950s the brand becomes AGM Sunflame and the lamps are clearly marked like that. This one pre dates the AGM take over so is 1950 to 1955 ish. Link to restoration..... Ebay Sunflame resto Stu
Yes these SunFlame lamps are confusing. Both SF Appliances and AGM used the brand name. In fact the 1950s saw a series of buy outs and mergers that complicated the hell out of working out who made what and when. AGM went bust in 1938 and were bought by Queen Stove who in turn were bought out or merged with King Seeley in the Mid 1950s. Akron sold out in 1950 to SF Appliances who were then bought out/merged with King Seeley in the mide 1950s. Then in 1960 King Seeley merged with Thermos to create a new company King Seeley Thermos who then made the Thermos brand lamps. Somewhere in there the company made the Kamplite brand which date from the mid to late 1950s. Then when you add in the fact that mail order companies such as Sears and Montgomery Ward sold re branded product made by one or other of the 1950s companies the whole game gets very complicated. ::Neil::
Neil also says.... They are pretty good lanterns. I don't know exactly what happened with these but Akron introduced a new small lantern in 1941 which is essentially very like the 50s SunFlame and AGM lanterns. I suspect they had worked up a range of products to follow that 1941 type but got dragged into wartime production of their standard range and the Milspec so the new designs and tooling sat idle during WW2. Then when they began operating again for the civilian market they ran into a labour dispute in 1948/9 and eventually J C Steese flogged the company off to Sun Flame who had been exporting Akron product and they used that new design work and tooling to produce the Sun Flame range we see. So these lanterns are actually Akron designs and those guys knew what they were doing and had designed a very neat and efficient lantern burner which works rather well. ::Neil:: Just thought i'd add this from the restoration page 8) The little Sunflame is in the middle of the FL & the IF , very bright with a 500cp Coleman mantle , i have just ordered a bulged globe similar to the original which will replace the "Vapalux" glass that is fitted now Stu
Hi All I have fitted a bulged Coleman 200 globe instead of the Vapalux one that came with the lamp , this is the closest globe i can find to the original Sunflame one , the restoration is now complete Stu
Now I have a dilemma. By the time this lantern was made the Akron Lamp Company no longer existed. Also for the few years they were made Sun Flame were a stand alone brand and not part of any other company. Then they got swallowed up into the King Seeley empire who also owned the AGM brand name and they put the two together to make AGM-Sunflame. So strictly speaking Sun Flame lamps don’t belong in either the Akron or AGM galleries. I will ponder this and chat with the other founders to see what best to do here. Watch this space. ::Neil::
Hi Neil Does that mean the lamp may get its own page in the reference gallery , kind of cool eh 8) Thanks for letting me know , made my day Stu .
OK, time to clarify. SunFlame was a brand name used by AGM just prior to WWII. After the war, they licensed that name and the New Jersey company used it with combined AGM and Akron derived parts until about 1949. So AGM marked SunFlame lanterns are pre-WWII, and not marked AGM, are post WWII and made by the New Jersey Company. AGM: American and SunFlame brands up to and through WWII. AGM branded 1946 to 1950. 1950-1957, AGM Div. of Queen Stove Works. 1957-1960 Queen Products div. of King-Seeley. Hope this helps. Lots of incomplete info floating around... until now.
Sounds to me like the Primus982-Høvikverk-Norway story though this just isnt another land who is taking over. I bet there is a lot of these mistake-making storys from transactions between the companies we dont know of yet. Claus C
Interesting and not how I understood things. However I have been known to be wrong before and I always want the truth. I assume you have evidence to support the above facts so can you please share this with us and prove me wrong. ::Neil::
Hi Neil and all. The AGM info is rock solid and fairly easy to track with some diligent surfing combined with printed material, hang tags, etc. The post-AGM SunFlame is a little sketchy. AGM may have been licensing the SunFlame name from Farmor Manufacturing Co., a maker of mantled oil lamps. it may have simply been a coincidence. SunFlame (NJ) was a mantle manufacturer, if I recall correctly, and decided to brand a lantern. It seems that they were buying the parts ready-made and simply assembling them. It's not 100% clear if they had bought up remaining Akron stocks, or if they were still in business. There was no doubt a partnership with AGM to manufacture the majority of components. There's a possibility that the AGM parts were manufactured under license by them, but there's no evidence that they had that kind of metal fabrication and manufacturing capability. Tracing the similar AGM components, It's fairly easy to date the NJ stuff using a little logic. AGM quit nickeling founts around 1949 when the Kamplite (burgundy) line was introduced. The SunFlame (NJ) marked stuff mirrors the post WWII AGM. The one thing that throws this is I've seen one reference to a SunFlame (NJ) with a steel nickel fount. Did they order them that way, or did they license them and make them themselves? I'll add more to this after I do some research, but I have to shower and get to work now! I did see that the NJ company registered the Sun Flame ™ in 1945. Click here.. They also registered this one in 1949 (applied 1947, so would have started using it then or soon after.) Click here.
See the timeline a couple posts above. AGM/SunFlame was WAY before the King-Seeley days. It dates to before WWII. It seems a lot of AGM and Kamplite stuff is being dated much later than it actually is. I'll run a craigslist post where SunFlame was in New Jersey. Maybe someone who worked there will reply.
OK compare an Akron model 400 with SF Appliances Sun Flame 107 and 109. They are near enough identical which is not a surprise because SF Appliances bought out Akron in 1949. Up to that buy out SFA had been marketing US made product overseas mostly Akron Diamond lamps and stoves. They promised the Akron workforce that the factory in Akron would be maintained but within a year had moved all the tooling and such to NJ. Akron model 400 was introduced in 1941. Licenced from Queen Stove? Maybe it was but I have seen no evidence to prove that and have to go with what Akron say which is that this was a new product of theirs. It is the only evidence I have which means it is the best evidence. So given model 400 was Akron then Sunflame after 1940 is Akron design but rebranded by the new company owners as Sun Flame. SF Appliances were in turn bought out either by Queen Stove or King Seeley in the mid 1950s not sure if that was before or after King Seeley bought out Queen Stove but that is when the SunFlame and AGM brands came together in the same ownership. Neither SFA nor King Seeley ever used Diamond as a brand name which they both owned at some time. From that evidence it follows that AGM SunFlame is a very possible mid 1950s brand. That does not mean it was not an AGM brand before WW2 though. So pre WW2 SunFlame? Well maybe but for that to be the case then Queen Stove would have had to sell the SunFlame brand to SFA in the 1940s. Maybe they did but it therefore follows that AGM must have registered the brand name in the 1930s and as yet I have seen no evidence of that. What you are suggesting is that Queen Stove licensed the design to Akron in 1941 and sold or licensed the Sun Flame brand to SFA in the mid 1940s. I need to see evidence. A dated SunFlame catalogue from the 1930s for instance or details of when the brand name was registered. Just looking at product is not good enough evidence of who owned what and when. Only dated product or paper can do that and these guys did not date mark their lamps so that leaves us wanting paper. There is confusion here and the dates are important. I have a big hole in my AGM catalogues. I have 1934 and 1949 but nothing in between. The 1949 parts catalogue does list models 3016 and 3026 which are SunFlame numbers but at 1949 that does not prove pre WW2 product. My catalogues tell me that those models are not 1934 or earlier but are 1949 or later. That is just not good evidence and I don't like it. The dates for SunFlame will be my doing. Based on the evidence I have which puts the brand names together in the mid 1950s I have stated t hat SF product is all 1950s with SFA earlier than AGM SF because the two brands were not in the same ownership until SFA were bought out. Like I said I have been known to get it wrong and I don't have a problem in being told so because I want the truth. So prove me wrong please but it has to be paper of one sort or another. ::Neil::
I have just been looking at some other posts and realised I have evidence that conflicts. In one of the Unimet posts you said that Queen Stove bought AGM in 1950. I don't believe that but if that is so then AGM SunFlame has to date to 1950 or later because I have a SunFlame catalogue here that clearly states the company is the AGM Division of Queen Stove. Queen Stove bought AGM from the receiver in 1938 when AGM went bankrupt. ::Neil::
Hmmm. I'm wondering if this was the export division or perhaps a Mexican plant building these under license. Queen Stove may have farmed continued production of this line off as a sideline after acquisition. It may have been done to use up massive stocks of spare parts. I couldn't see a date on it. Very interesting. I found the 1950 date here. The Scotsman brand is still alive and well. I knew AGM was in tough shape after labor problems, but assumed Army contracts had kept them afloat. Scotsman. There's also this history by a local historian that says Queen Stove didn't enter the picture until after the war. Queen Stove was in the same town. Click here.
Weell, with this combined information, it seems the earlier SunFlame stuff follows what I have written, and is clearly marked American Gas Machine and Made in USA. A brand name. Looks like this later logo version must have been assembled elsewhere possibly under license, like the original Mini. One thing is for sure, it didn't last very long. if that paper is from 1950, it must have been a short lived venture, possibly only enough nw production of parts to amalgamate previous stock. We do know they adopted the Kamplite brand name when they ditched brass founts for US production. This version of SunFlame being a later offshoot is an eye opener to me. It's refreshing to have joined a forum where people aren't completely stuck on the common Coleman and have information to share. Great fun!
Yes I was wrong here. I assumed that after the 1937 strike AGM had been bankrupt in 1938 and that Queen Stove had acquired the business at that time. I am sure now this is not so. I found a court case actually about unpaid taxes on a building formerly owned by AGM. In this case it states that AGM became insovent and filed for bankrupcy on 1st December 1939 and that following the petition the company efected a reorganisation in 1941. So they did go bankrupt but reorganised rather than sold out at that time. I also found the Scotsman info and agree that this tells us Queen Stove bought the business in 1950. OK so that means any AGM-SunFlame which has AGM Division of Queen Stove on the label cannot be from before 1950 simply because such a division did not exist before that. We also know that the SunFlame brand was in use by SFA in 1947 because I have a letter from them dated 1 August 1947. That illustrates a lantern that looks very like an AGM 3016. Problem there is SFA was an exporting company and not manufacturing so the lamp could be either an Akron or an AGM. I am still not convinced that the Sunflame brand AGM product dates from before WW2 but it does seem to be a definite maybe. More research I think. ::Neil::
I have been trawling through my lanp images and found a gap in the knowledge. I have pictures of AGM SunFlame models 2471, 2570, 3066, 3076 and 3026. Of this only 3026 is in any catalogue or other paper I have. So there are 4 lamp models there clearly marked as SunFlame and AGM as the manufacturer but without mention of Queen Stove. So I assume these are all made between 1936, which is the last real AGM catalogue I have, and 1950 when AGM became part of Queen Stove. That is a big gap which needs filling because I susoect in the missing paper lies some answers. ::Neil::
I was pointed to this thread in a roundabout way by another collector. This thread made for interesting reading and it shows how the history of companies, that once was correct, can change just by two people discussing little things they have found. Certain things like Neil thinking Queen Stove bought out AGM in 1938 were found to be incorrect in the above discussions. It goes to show, that if people sit down and discuss things, not shout people down, progress can be made. For a topic that is 4 years old, I think the posters were doing a good job trying to fill in AGM's history. To help fill in the missing pieces from the above discussion see the following. Neil was correct when he said AGM filed for bankruptcy in 1938. The AGM management closed the factory circa September 1938. By Circa December 1938, the AGM board were replaced with the Prentiss Waber board. The factory then re-opened. Prentiss Waber were given the option to buy out AGM stocks but obviously decided against it as in 1940, AGM were re-incorporated - minus the Prentiss Waber board. In relation to SunFlame. In 1938, AGM organised a building to be built in New Jersey, a warehouse/office. It was not AGM's building, they were just leasing the building. As mentioned above, AGM, after signing the lease hit hard times and their factory was closed. Once Prentiss Waber re-opened AGM they obviously felt that the best way forward did not include paying rent on the New Jersey warehouse. The S.F. Appliances company was formed and took over the lease from AGM and moved into the New Jersey building. The directors of the new S. F. Appliances company are not known by me to have any connection with either AGM or Prentiss Waber's known owners/directors. From 1939 until 1948 S.F.Appliances were strictly a wholesale exporter of lamps. In 1948, S. F. Appliances bought out The Akron Lamp Co. S.F. only used a skeleton staff and realised they had made a mistake buying the Akron Lamp Co and decided to close it in 1949. To keep this post of mine as brief as possible, I won't go into the reasons why S.F realised they had made a mistake, nor will I expand on other matters that could be. Prior to S.F. Appliances buying out Akron, they had sent at least one engineer to the Akron Lamp factory, to work on new lamp designs for after the war. When S.F. Appliances closed The Akron Lamp Co, the lamp plant went to the AGM factory. The iron making division was leased to Rogers Tool and Die Co for a period of 5 years. The iron plant was moved into Rogers Tool and Die Co's factory. It is important to know that when S.F. Appliances bought the Akron Lamp Co, they did not purchase the factory building. In 1950, as mentioned in the above discussions, Queen Stove bought out AGM. I'll stop here as the history moves into a different era than what was being discussed in this topic. I'd like to say though, AGM's history did not stop with the Queen Stove Co buy out. I'd be pleased to answer any questions.
Shows you I don't always get it right and Matt is right that I had the Queen Stove take over date wrong. There is however one thing that always puzzles me. SunFlame as a brand name belonged to AGM in the 1930s and yet was also used by SF appliances. I suspect I may be getting dates confused again but right now it seems that there had to be some collusion between AGM and SF for them to apparently both use the same brand concurrently. ::Neil::
I believe the answer is yes as to whether there was collusion with the Sun Flame name. It is my belief that AGM stopped using the name Sun Flame for their oil heaters from 1939/40. S F Appliances began in 1939. In fact, AGM began to use other names including Gopher. Despite AGM ceasing to use the name for their oil heaters, it wasn't long before their lanterns began showing up as American Sun Flame as advertised by themselves or as simply Sun Flame as advertised by Sears etc. I do have a theory that initially, Sun Flame GPA's sales in America, were essentially forced upon S F Appliances. During the war, as more countries fell to the enemy, markets dried up. Excess stock from '40/'41 were dumped on the American market. By '45, when the War Dept allowed AGM to resume manufacturing for the civilian population, I believe there were an excess of lamps manufactured that could not be exported due to low demand, and they again were dumped on the American market as Ads for Sun Flame lanterns spiked. I know AGM were fined during the war for manufacturing lamps over their allowed quota. From memory, it may have even been twice with the War Dept even considering closing AGM as punishment. Obviously, the excess that AGM were manufacturing were being sold on the American market. Sun Flame were in collusion with the Akron Lamp Co during the war years, even having engineers working at Akron Lamp Co developing lamps for the post war years. I would think that it was during the war years that S F Appliances and AGM's collusion began to sour. From memory again, it was 1947 when S F Appliances Trademarked the either the name Sun Flame or the Sun Flame logo or both. Neil, I know you aren't a fan of discussing what may have happened on an open forum but 90% of what I said above is fact. The only theory is, why were Sun Flame lanterns turning up on the American market. Again, I suspect it was forced upon S F due to the war.
Oh I don't mind this but as you know what I don't like is speculation. You have interesting theories which do have much merit but I always worry that theorising in public can lead to misunderstanding. In other words some folk my well read and accept a theory as fact and down the line Quote it as truth. Maybe this is a good thing because we may be proved wrong in the future and if our bruised egos lead to a better truth then maybe speculation was worth publication. We have worried this subject to death but still lack evidence. The whole saga is confusing because we know there are links between the various brands and companies but we don't know the exact nature of these links. We need more evidence. Maybe one day?? ::Neil::
