Trench art Tilley lamp...

I suppose a few of us were watching this one. Anyone here the eventual high bidder?

I think I could have done with the gallery for a donut I bought last weekend. But what I really wondered was if that's a VL1 tank dropped into a shell-case or just a tank made from a shell case, possibly with a VL1 tank-top soldered in. Or what...

 

Hi dave
I think its just a home made type thing someone from matlock sold similar home made VL1 type lamps on ebay a while back now
To me the top of the lamp casing not tilley as there is no pressure tit, riser tube is good copy but anyone with acess to a lathe could have done that
suppose if you have a vase and it fits with the right gallery on its a bit nearer a lamp than what you had
rarther have the real one myself tho maybe one day

pete

 

Aye, the more I look at it, the more I think the gallery's been made as well. Good quality workmanship, that's for sure...

VL1s - I haven't heard of any coming onto the open market for years. I suspect a few change hands 'behind the scenes' though. I do know of a couple where the owner seems to have left the hobby but he wants what must be at least twice the market value. Too much for me, anyway...

 

Doesn't look like it would fit in a vase as it has a flared base. The top of the tank does look well made though.

 

I looked at this carefully - as I have a VL1 vase without the innards. It didn't seem to be a "standard" tank at least, as on a usual VL1 the top pressing is a female fit over the tube. And there appears to be a bottom rim....

Ian

 

you know I missed that ian so obvious too

pete

 

Yeh, I was watching it, my first thought was VL 1 tank cracks, as they do. Take the top off and stick it in a shell case. Hadn't noticed the lack of pressure tit, but the flare up around where the pump is fixed in looks about right. What I noticed, is that in the first two pictures, the top half (Control cock to the top of the burner) is far too tall to go on the tank . I think it's actually taller so visually at least it's not balanced. Also the bolts holding the globe look new and not had much heat like the rest of the gallery appears to have had and the air buttons are not like any Tilley ones I've seen. Still a good price though and the seller at least will be very happy with that result.

 

I was watching this too and asked seller about height and diameter - at 3 3/4" diameter I doubt it would fit in the Bretby vase to form a VL1. Height 9" but that would be no problem with something placed in vase to give correct height. Someone has paid a lot of money for this "Tilley" tank/lamp whatever you like to call it.

Derek, VL1 tank is cylindrical, the flare at the base of the vase would, I assume, be for stability.

 

Well, no, it isn't - it's a shell case, hence the rim at the bottom which would have held it against the back of the breech in the gun...

My first thought was that someone broke the vase and decided to stick the lamp in 'that old shell case Grandad brought back from The Somme'.

The inner widths of my VL1 vases are 84mm and 89mm - presumably because they were hand thrown on a wheel. There's a kind of tapered metal ring which sits between the top of the tank and vase to conceal the gap.

Anybody know anything about the diameters of common artillery shells? - no, didn't think so...

 

Well, from what can be seen it is most likely formed from a shell case but just 'cos the ad says so, doesn't make it so. After all, it also says it's Trench Art, but it is post 1918 and I doubt it was put together in a roadmender's trench.....

 

Pete

I did wonder whether the shell case had a slightly larger diameter than the usual tube - such that a VL1 top pressing/spinning fits inside. But as you say, there is no pressure indicator. It still could be an Al5 top (same pressing - no pressure indicator) with a VL1 type riser, which together seems improbable.

Therefore, seems to be largely home-made VL1 influenced replica - but the flaring of the top around the pump looks very well done and suggests a sheet metal top rather than something turned from solid.

It's not obvious how this one has been created.

 

Do I really have to answer that one?
I have a 6 pounder as well but I'd say that the one on ebay was originally a an 18 like the one in the picture. I'll leave now before I tell you about the rest of the stuff I've bought over the years.

 

Hmm, just remembered this other one which on top looks very similarly made. No tit, same riser and same pressing around the pump.

[url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/2823

EDIT: The ebay link David put there is still visible, just happens to be the same seller.

 

Well done, Sherlock!

First listing from November 2011 - got a bit more with his latest creation, and as Matt says, the same seller...

...and checking his feedback, I see he sold a "Trench Art Tilley Paraffin Pressure Lamp (#190607190055)" for £130 in January 2012.

 

I'm taking a bow. That original listing sounds an awful lot like he has made the lamp or knows who made the lamp. Certainly not trying to portray it as trench art. Although reading this current one again it is similar. I do think that he should have said trench art style or something along those lines, as "trench art" to me means something like these two below. Manufactured in 1916 and 1917 themselves, I would think that the crude hand formed patterns have been on there for most of their life.
Unlike the Tilley which was probably made fairly recently.

 

The listing is still viewable on Ebay David, but unfortunately no pictures.

 

Yeah, looking at the rest of his feedback, he's also sold lots of lathe-related stuff and militaria.

I reckon he's making these lamps currently and selling them as he goes...

 

Most of the "trench art" was made in the 1920's when tourists flooded the old front lines. They wanted souvenirs so many local workshops provided what they wanted. I have even seen second WW shells with Great War dates chiseled in them . Clearly, even after WW2 there was still a demand for WW1 "souvenirs". You may find patterns found on shells found 100's of miles apart are equal. Books with patterns were sold (printed in thin paper, you just put the paper on the shell and follow the lines) in large quantities.

Best regards,

Wim

 

I have three cases from WWI, two engraved and heavily fluted, one straight, all three are about 3.5 inches across the base. Around 14" tall.

 

Well, I sent him a message this morning:-

"Dear walther47,

I'm just trying to figure out how that lamp's been made. It would be useful to know what marks are on the base of the shell case, if you haven't packed it already. Any idea of it's history and who made it?..."

I got a reply:-

"hi there, made by my uncle..... to his secret recipe. he is a retired engineer, regards paul."

Not exactly what I was after, but there you have it...

 

"Secret recipe"... Is that a way of saying, "I don't know"?

 

Maybe.

I took it to mean, politely - 'that's my business' or perhaps, 'buy the next one and find out for yourself'. Needless to say, that's not going to happen.

I'd have thought that, even at £260 a pop, it's a lot of work for not much return...

 

Not too much work for £260 there dave just ripping people off I think
I suppose this is a good reason why we should allow these ebay sitings so this discussion would at least wise up prospective buyers of this junk before they part with their money

pete

 

Aye, but there's got to be a good few hours labour there on top of the cost of the parts, ebay fees and what-have-you. I wouldn't like to make one for that amount, especially considering the two previous ones went for just £80-odd and £120-odd.

Still, I'm not an engineer...

 

Hi !
I think I have met the guy making these lamps last year .The source of the contamination is Matlock in derbyshire .
He was suppost to bring us ( Ian , Peter and Mick ) pics. at cromford or Belper vintage rally but never show'd !
Might even be say person who was desperate for a tilley table lamp today ( 16th june ) while I was selling at Bakewell car boot and one of Ross's lovely Coleman table lamps at a bargain price of a tenner ! was definately not on his shopping list.
Bakewell is 6 miles from Matlock roughly !
mick

 

Courtesy of the seller walther47, a couple of pics of the lamp. At the price they're going for i think these are being picked up by collectors with a totally different or overlapping area of interest.

 

Interesting thread and if you excuse the pun " a minefield " for the inexperienced.

It does open up another discussion though. " What do you do with the VL1 and Coleman 150's etc" when the vase is missing.

I have a slab of Cedar 6 in X 6 in X 4 ft that I was going to " groom " to fit a Coleman 150 into. A lot of work drilling the centre and the cosmetic tasks to the outside.

Like many Collectors I have the occasional shell casing around.

By making an insert / packer of 1/4 in or so the Coleman 150 will fit quite nicely into a 105 mm Howitzer. A bit more lateral thinking and a stand can be made to fit internally using the primer as a base.

Less wood shavings and headaches with the shell casing.

Colin

 

To be honest I thought it was quite ugly, so for that reason alone I wouldn't have been caught out...

To me it just doesn't have the same elegance as the pottery ones although my wife doesn't like those either.

 

I expect if someone twisted my arm that I could find a home for one...

I'd probably see if there was someone local who was into making pottery and see if they could make a replica, perhaps in a colour that wasn't used for the originals. It may not be original but I recon you could still end up with a nice lamp.

 

I can do that.






Well, it does stop it from falling over.

Colin