Since the POR-15 tank sealer has no shelf life after it's been opened and some of the tools I use for this are single use, I decided to do all the lamps and lanterns that needed the treatment all at one time and figured I'd share my experience. Over the past few months, they all got the Marine Clean treatment followed by the Metal Prep solution per POR's directions and all spent several weeks on our heating system radiators thoroughly drying out. I lined them all up on the dining room table and gave them the treatment. From the left and around... Coleman 152 Sunshine Safety 532 Akron Diamond 103 LQ427 Coleman 117 Aladdin Kerosene can P&A Plumwood store lamp (pin hole leak at seam) Miller Home lamp (brass platted (long gone)) tin lamp New Rochester Hotel lamp (similar to the Miller) Equipment: The gloves are critical. The ear syringe with added rubber tube extension keeps the mess to a minimum, allowing a very controlled adding of the sealer to the tanks. An added benefit is that you can suck out any excess sealer rather than trying to pour it out of the fill hole. This cannot be reused as the sealer hardens up inside. An added expense but well worth it. The little LED flashlight is a real gem, easily fitting through the smallest fill hole and still allowing you to see inside the font as it has a narrow flexible neck. Also can be shined down through the valve hole. Not the highest quality item but for less than $5.00, I bought three on Amazon here.. Prior to adding the sesler, I covered the fonts with regular kitchen plastic wrap, poking holes where necessary. While not too messy due to the syringe, you do still get a little bit of paint on your gloved hands, primarily due to wiping down the rubber fill tube and this keeps the fonts clean and makes final clean up easy. I only used half of the 8 oz. can of tank sealer (always buy the smallest can) for all of them. They are all back on the radiators for at least a couple of weeks and then should be ready for final assembly. Coincidentally, new mica globes for the Akron and 427 arrived today from Fred Kuntz (he sure does nice work ), so I'm developing a severe case of lighting anxiety Hope this helps, Dan
Hi Dan, A very useful post, thanks. Very good thinking to do several together as it is expensive stuff. When I used POR15 once I put too much in and it got onto the end of the pick-up tube I managed to clear it with some wire so all was OK in the end , but that stuff sets really hard. What I do now is to insert a thin wire down the riser into the pick-up tube and until it is flush with the bottom of the pick-up. This acts as a plug in case any POR15 gets to touch the bottom of the pick-up. I then remove the wire while the POR is still soft. Steve
Dan. you must have either the clenliness of an operating theatre and/or a very understanding 'other'. my experience of por 15 is a ripped latex glove and a black hand for two weeks,to be even within ten feet of a white tablecloth would have been a recipe for diaster
POR 15 is a four day cure not a couple of weeks. I normally feed air through the tanks with a fish tank air supply although I suspect they will cure in the same time without this. ::Neil::
Hiya Dan, This does seem a very demanding discipline, did you manage to seal all the marvelous founts, with one fell swoop of manual effort, or did you just have to keep going back to the queue (over a day or so), until the last one was checked, finished ? As this would just give me a decent timeline to be trying to aim for, being I find this sealant brand, easy enough to acquire ? I've more than a dozen tanks, that I should try safeguarding from further detritus melee; but as I noted, the POR doesn't have a very good shelf life, so it would have to be 'pull your socks up time' & under starters orders; less I try it out firstly, on an already opened fount (leisurely), to evaluate it's workability. Yes, I'll look to buying the smallest fluid oz container, for now. Thanks for your superb setting display, a picture says a 1000 words, etc. Excellent fettle finish, to the founts & Oil/Wick burners. Good stuff. Regards, Jon.
On tanks with a steel base plate I sometimes seal off the residue in the can then after waiting a day for the inner sealer to harden enough I invert the tank and paint the base plate with the stuff as well. I have not done this a lot but with a few the base plates were rusted and I wanted to do the same preservation job as on the inside. Not always ideal as it can cover up markings such as Coleman have on the base plate but perhaps preservation is more important for some lamps. ::Neil::
Hi Jon, Regarding the time it took to seal them all. I'm going from memory here, but once you're all set up, and all the tanks are masked, it may have been about 15 or 20 minutes each. Especially once you get the feel for how much paint to squeeze in. The most time consuming part of the painting operation is gently turning the tank about to evenly distribute the paint inside (and a few peeks inside along the way, to make sure you don't need more paint, or you have added too much). This is the critical part. You get better at it as you move down the line, hence it's good to do a bunch at a time. The real time consuming part is doing the initial tank preparation with Marine Clean and then Metal Prep and then the drying (critical that the tank is bone dry). I leave Marine Clean in some tanks for two or three hours. This was done weeks or months before. If you suffer from lighting anxiety, (as I do), it's tough to put a lamp or lantern aside for a while. You want to get it done and fired up! The only solution to this is to get lamps with clean, rust free tanks (dream on). I notice that POR-15 products (including Marine Clean & Metal Prep) are available in the UK here.. Perhaps there are other dealers. A note on Marine Clean & Metal Prep. They may seem expensive, but these products are re-useable. I just filter it through a coffee filter (sometimes two) to get rid of the tons of crap that usually comes out of the tank, and it goes back in the jug. Dan
I think that's a good assumption, although I've never had a reason to seal a brass tank (love those 100% brass lamps/lanterns). The wick lamp had a leak at the seam, and that was only spot treated with sandpaper (no chemicals) and brush painted. It's only the rusted steel tanks (usually the bottom) that have given me problems bad enough to require sealing. The rest of the tank could be steel or brass, so in that case, it gets the metal prep treatment. I need to add here, that sealing may imply there was a leak. I only "seal" a pressure tank that does not leak with the hope of stopping further rusting and adding some strength and body back to the tank, especially if I've removed a handful of tank in the form of rusty pieces (see Stu's post [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/5837 for an example of a "handful" ). In normal non-pressurized tanks such as autos and motorcycles, (which is what POR-15 was designed for), it will seal small holes and cracks directly. For instance, I would not trust POR-15 to seal stress cracks. The MSDS for Metal Prep shows that it contains phosphoric acid, so from a brass perspective you may want to take that into consideration. For the relatively short length of time the tank is soaked, I don't think it's an issue, but I'm not an expert. 1 Water 007732-18-5 231-791-2 Not Classified in Annex I of Directive — 2 Nonylphenol Ethoxylate 026027-38-3 500-045-0 Not Classified in Annex I of Directive — 3 Phosphoric Acid 007664-38-2 231-633-2 C; 34-36/38 3 - 7 4 Zinc Phosphate 007779-90-0 231-944-3 N; 50/53 3 - 7 Dan
Hi Dan very good idea, having a selection of steel tanks to seal, rather than just one at a time which works out very expensive doing a single tank at a time, as Por15 has no shelf life once opened. It is a shame the formula can not be changed, so once the lid has been replaced on the tin, preventing air coming in contact with it, then it would last like paint so projects don't have to be put on hold to make enough to make it worth while
So how much would say a Bialaddin 300 tank use? I have a large paraffin can that I want to do and several items too so I'm probably now in a position where it is worth my time.
Not much, a few tablespoons maybe? I sealed all those items on the table and still had a 1/2 of an 8 oz can left. I was only sealing the bottoms and perhaps a 1/2" or 1" up the tank side though. Are you thinking of sealing stress cracks in the brass tank? Perhaps this is not such a big issue with kerosene lamps, but I'd be leery of doing this with a petrol of CF fueled lamp. POR-15 was designed for sealing non-pressurized tanks and as pressure tanks expand under pressure (albeit a small amount) I don't know if the expansion/contraction characteristics of brass and POR-15 are compatible. Sealing pin holes is one thing, cracks another. I think about when I used to try to seal cracks in plaster walls; before I started using fiberglass mesh under the patch, the cracks would come right back. I think the same principal may apply to sealing stress cracks in tanks; you need some sort of mechanical bond. Just a thought. Dan
I understand your caution here but I have sealed quite a few stress cracked gasoline lamps without any problems. I agree that the brass may flex a little but it can't move much because of the shape and then of course the resin also will flex a little and it seems to accomodate any movement quite well. What I do know is that POR15 will seal a very badly stressed tank where you wonder what is actually holding the thing together because the stress lines seem to join up sideways as well as vertically. I have only done this in kero lamps so far but after running them several times there are still no leaks so I conclude that the stuff is actually pretty safe to use in stressed gasoline lamps although I would only run them if there are just a few vertical stress lines. ::Neil::
Dan, Well, I didn't reply to this thread, you've supplied, prior; this wasn't intended, I know it's always worthwhile, hearing all I can, about repairs; seeing as most of the lamps I get hold of, have already had a good innings, and require a good dose of the TLC. I'll look further into the supply links, for the UK, and jot them down; I don't yet know if a Computer tech guy, that's calling tomorrow morning, will be able to download a host of bookmarks, I've already saved; to an external disc/drive ? (my PC also doesn't back up, properly' sorry for going off topic). I'll be more in the know, after a few days. I think it would be worthwhile, even if there were no evidence, typifying dangerous fount conditions, to seal back and protect the main base area, for the fuels protection, alone. With Naptha, if I'm running short of it, then the left overs from a burn, i'll pour all back into a clear, 750 ml turps bottle, finally; but before it reach's here, it'll first go into a wider measuring jug beaker ; so I can briefly see how contamination's affected it, while in the 'newly cleaned' lantern & fount. The 228 D, now working; received a considerable pummeling, tank wise; from many small nuts/bolts & screws; but not to its detriment. I just would have liked results, showing purer fuel, on every empty, than what I'm still seeing, presently. The Salsa & Carackers side step , did make a major improvement to the feeds quality; but this POR, should hopefully sanitize & block, the remainder of what's still left lurking there. Another scan of the 1955 AGM, Milspec; for folks's delight. The Generator, affixed; was the one that needed replacing; but after the mini fireball, the lantern was spruced back up, to look as good as the top shot, first showed. Incidentally, there's a WWII 1943 or 44' original Milspec 252, currently going for opportunity, within the bay.com; it does look in a sorry state, but it's still a tempter. I don't understand why any lantern's, allowed to dim out, and go un to sufferance; but when you consider that all the gold that has ever been mined, through out the span of human history (excepting out 'of, or 'in control, orbiting satellites & other space debris), the same amount of the stuff, going way back & beyond, draping Cleopatra's fine lines, still physically graces the Planet, today; and roughly in the same quantities, no more, no less. It would certainly be very interesting to hear of, but better still; seeing photo's of any Lanterns that were made (within working, dynamic reasoning), purely of either of gold or silver/ titanium, white gold, etc. I don't know why, but I suspect there could possibly be a small number, hopefully ? I could well imagine, there being some fine examples, of the like; owned and used, within Falconry, around Saudi Arabia, or some of the other Middle Eastern countries/ principalities; there in, and around ? There'll be some information, out there, regarding this, surely; I can't see it being totally unheard of ? My first champion, before and after. A grand lantern, but not as noisy as the J.C.Higgins # 1. NB: Your Milspec, may mirror the same valve wheel, as mine ; but can you make out the dark green hue, to it (the photo lights, not good) ? I was wondering if you'd heard of other pigmentation colour variants, to these wheel types, fitted to the 220's ? I've not been lamping, so long a while; but have only managed to see them, in black, red; or the above tincture ? Regards, Jon.
I very much doubt there are; plated perhaps... However, a company I worked for did supply gold faceplates for the light switches in Saddam Hussein's palace.
He He; I was just dizzying myself with ideas above my station; but as one thing leads to another (when enjoying your breakfast) boiled eggs n' soldiers; I thought of my Mums fascination for Faberge exotic jewellery, and glanced at one my lamp hoards. "Bingo" I might ask this, I bet Neil or another lampie, who's been well keen, for years, might have heard something, on these lines ? Cheers, I wonder now; if there are some Russian members with some knowledge, over there; on extrovert/ very costly, lantern builds/finishers, etc ? Perhaps Rasputin was also crazy for lamps, as well as the Ladies ? There's some astounding imagery to be savored, in the desert, at night; and the flickering of a lantern, pillion wise; from horse back, gets the Passport jumping around, in the bottom draw (perhaps soonest ?), hey ho. Ta, for the reply. The Saudi's seem to always have Lanterns, placed about; the light effects are a big draw for me; much better than light bulbs. Jon.
There are some Gold plated Coleman lanterns out there. A very few are made for presentation purposes. The hosts of every Coleman Convention and some retiring company staff are presented with one. So Coleman make at least one a year but rarely more than three or four so they are rare. They almost never turn up for sale so I have no idea what a value might be. ::Neil::
Not as far as I recall. I have seen three of these presentations at conventions and one other with a collector. Actually he is one lucky guy with two now because in addition to the one he had collected some years ago he has also hosted a convention which got him the second. I am pretty sure they are all clear glass. ::Neil::
Well Neil, if you don't rightly know how to ask; and Google can't tell you, I was just hoping for the best lead back, embarrassing or not ? I'd not thought to weighing up' the avenues of further possible enquiry, down the appreciation for individual or shared achievements, scenario ( broad scope). Realistically, they wouldn't be very practical, but a person wealthy enough to own such a Lantern, would certainly not be where they are, for being whimsical or foolish; this is unless they were a head spinning lottery winner, that just had to satisfy yet another life times ambition. Gold doesn't spark, and I think the same can be said for brass ? I must get back to those technical drawings, more work to be done.. . . . with those pipelines & seals. . ... . . Here's a sparkling, but normal one , the 3/300's Vent has still to be enameled, it looks a treat as it is, but when I can get it up & running, the present finish, wouldn't hang about for long, before fine rust & bluing, became apparent. Cheers, Jon.
That is a fine looking Austramax. You do seem to be pretty good at making them look pretty good again. NIce job. ::Neil::
