Hiya, I've just got part way through fettling my first stove, which had the remnants of an original decal, stuck over some dating & brand, scribe work. The decal badge was hardly recognizable, so in the main tank clean up, I removed this to reveal underneath the letters, SH&S, then a 'B' (all set within an inverted triangle), to the left, was N.o'2' (month), then to the right, the N.o '62' (only a presumption, the year)? I've stripped every component down, then fettled off all the detritus and gunk, so now it's looking sharper but I've still to give every surface that's viewable, a thorough polishing up, before I can piece the full parts, all back together again. The problem I have ATM, is that there were two very worn gaskets or seal washers (the originals), that sandwiched the threads to the bolt of the burner (tight up to the chunky hex nut), but also further down, on the underside of the pre-heating cup. I couldn't really tell, because the lowest one (below the cup), seemed not to have any 'form' left to it, it was more like black tar; which then had me suspecting that between the two still present, they were both slightly different in material composition ? Lowest, more rubbery, all sat stuck in the tubes 'moat', as above in the pic; then the highest, resembling leather/ compressed card, or possibly asbestos, seen here below, on the meths cup & on its tod ? The outside diameter to the only one I have left, is placed directly beneath the burner nut ( & the lowest one, had just turned to mulch), is a hairs breadth, just over 12 and one half/ 16 th's of an inch; then the internal diameter, taken by calipers, from around the threaded bolt, reads exactly 9/ 16 th's of an inch. Hopefully, if there's any stove expert or appreciator, willing & able to help me decide which size's I should really be looking for; or also possibly know which washer material would be best, for use with replacements; I'd be very glad to hear from you ? As I haven't fully figured out what else may be required, I might be needing to service the check valve, but I've not yet wanted to start with this; it's for the best first, to just test the pumps workability I suppose; but as I've been on with main clean up, I've not yet got to this job. Any advice or guidance with this new side project, would be very well appreciated. I'd like to see how these look, during burner operation; it's very well made & the actual burner itself, came up very clean & shiny, when the layers of carbon were eventually broken down. After all this loading, ect, I suspect I've entered this, unfortunately, to the wrong site, I have to apologise, should this be so ? Thanks a lot, and I'll add more pictures later . . . Regards, Jon.
I could be wrong but the washer material looks like calmonite to me - it's an asbestos substitute. Wet it before you tighten up anything against it, otherwise it has a tendency to break. Better modern materials with a superior specification are available - particularly if it is, in fact, asbestos rather than calmonite Notwithstanding you've posted this in the Open Forum, IMHO, I think you'll be more likely to get a more comprehensive set of responses if it were to be transferred to CCS - and one member over there produces, and will supply, washers with the superior specification I mentioned above. Hope that helps...
Righto, Thanks for that David, Calmonite is totally new to me & I first did lean to it being the bad stuff, Asbestos, but if that "furry look" to the pictured washer, first had you suspect it be this Calmonite material, I can just say that the crap that was sort of still clinging to it, was more like liquid rubber or tar, but this coating was on the side, directly touching the underside of the hex nut. Almost like dark syrup, after it was in warm water, but the rigidity to the washer, was still unaffected & tough flat ! What it factually was, won't be found out now (it's down the sink & gone, but there was very little of it, 'say' around two dirt arcs, from under both thumbnails). I still can't say whether there was just one washer, and the heat from burning (when it was in regular use) over time, just slithered off & went further south, with gravity & the heat, to then build up, under the pre-heat cup, spreading round that moat !? The tiny 'moat' in the scan, top of the tube though; was in 'over spill' with the stuff, but set in 'solid like'. I gotta go with there being two, originally fitted (top & below), as the tar substance, stuck to the back of the cup, was 360 in full. I'll not use it for owt else, it looks beyond being safe now, but as I have posted this article to the wrong site (most unintentionally, I did forget, so I'm sorry for that); could the topic be moved over automatically, or should I enter it all again, but within CCS please (not sure what IMHO abbreviates too, also, ect )? I'll visit Google now, could be some images of 'calmonite' there, to refer for view ? Bloomin' weird stuff it is, it ended up looking like Spit the Dog, with that tar substance, absent ! Thanks for the help, nice one . Jon.
I guess you must know that S H & S B stands for Samuel Heath & Sons Birmingham. This one has a steel tank date stamped 1944 with the WD arrow as brass was requisitioned for munitions manufacture. Some more info on Classic Camp Stoves website. PS: IMHO - In My Honest Opinion.
Jon, you have photographed your stove well and have explained your problems clearly. It is true that your post would have been better posted on the 'Classic Camp Stoves' site. But many people are members of both CPL and CCS. First of all I would like to say that you have a very vice stove and there is no reason why it can not be used as if it were brand new. Before giving any advice, I need to know one thing. Do you have the inner and outer silent burner caps?
Hi Trevor, Thanks for your reply, and though I'm late in response to your question, this is because I don't ever now, seem to be being notified I've a question to answer, in the topic I've added ? I can only find my topics, usually just by searching 'My Topics' loaded, ect; there doesn't seem another way to do it; it really does have me not knowing whether I'm coming or going; but I really enjoy the forum, I'm just no great shakes with computers. Your pictures are showing the main burner (yes, you'll have seen that photo I included)? Then the large Steel dome, which has many perforations, gauze like, all around it (yes, I also have this, though I should have included this also) (Big Clean, that one, it took some revealing, ect ). Then there's the scan of your own, depicting a 'cup', which appears to be very much similar, to the pre-heating cup, I've also added (with the old seal washer). Your scan image please, is this the same item component as this pre-heating cup; but your image is just taken, with it upside down ? It looks like it's the same, but can't tell, as its turned over, with the 'bowl' inverted (no use dynamically, in that position, ect). Should this item not be what I only suspect it to be, it's possible the stove has that part, your depicting there, missing from the whole unit ? I'm hoping this makes sense, it's those gasket seal washers, I've been looking into trying to identify, then replace, that's been mainly on my mind, since the first fettle; though I'd kind of suspected there could be other parts misplaced, along its dis-use period (many years, ect). Yes, it is the wrong site for it, but the CCS wont let me log in, under the same I.D and PW, as for CPL; will I have to please register there, from a new stand point ? Thanks a lot, for your interest & help; I really want to get this burning again, it's full of character & good design, the parts and metal workings, are very well made & the brass is really solid stuff. I like the pan grill, it's now clean & gleaming also. Cheers then, Jon.
Derek, Cheers for the links, the first one took me to a online bathroom showroom dept store, honestly . but the classic pressure stove link, brought me through to the gallery in CCS, where the one in there, loaded by 'Listertrucks', appears to be the same as mine ? It's the one under the first one there, on the start of the page, left. Thanks for this. Jon .
Hi Trevor, I can't say for sure, because as I said, the middle component to the three burner parts you've pictured in the accompanying attachment, looks to me to be the pre-heating cup, turned facing down hill, then it's even more puzzling, because that middle drawing, seems to have the very same 'black tar like washer', adhered to it centrally, as the meths cup (please read below) ! That's where, on the pre-heat cup (in my set of pictures), the same type of 'left over' tar like washer was stuck around, I'd had to then scrape off with my nails & a palette knife (almost like black plaster sine), to try identify what it was I'd be requiring, replacement wise . It's the main and only gripe I have, with the whole of these lamp & lantern refurbishments; the simple fact that "to get in there deep, within the jungle canopy & start breaking eggs to fry up an omelette", you've to make a clean decision to jump in with both feet ? Taking detailed photographs, before that knee jerk commitment, is an off putting 'bind', that usually increases the finishing time for most projects , so as I've that many on the go (festering for attention around me), I forget about it, & dive straight in without the arm bands on. If you'd know, or possibly be able to help me with the washers, or this suspected missing part maybe, I'd obviously like this a lot, ta very much (and lastly for now, for a guy with high anxiety already, I sure took up with the right hobby interest) ! I tried contacting the fettle box, enquiring via Ebay, surrounding the new washer/ seal sequestering, but as of now, am still yet to get a reply. I'm keeping the fingers crossed. . . . .. but I might have to get some bespoke made, by a mechanics garage, or similar. Thanks, from Jon.
Yes, that's what the company that made your stove are in the business of today. See HERE. PS: You might well find that a motorists accessory shop supply fibre washers that could fit. One below the spirit cup and one above. But fettlebox will have the correct stuff. Trevor's image shows the outer burner cap; the inner burner cap (that sits under the outer); and the lower image of them is as they sit together on top the burner.
Ok Derek (and thanks Trevor, also) I'm missing that inner cup then, "drat & double drat", that means more blood hounding about, for its hopeful replacement, I can't see that an easy one to find ! Thanks Guy's, will try fettle box, again later. Jon.
Easy enough to find Jon, I've probably got one floating about somewhere. I'll have a look in the shed after brekky.
Yes, I have a couple floating around. If you are in the UK I can pop it in the post. If you are not, we'd best find out shipping costs. It's only small, shouldn't cost much to send. You can PM me for your address if you wish. Derek Just checked - you're in God's own county!
Hi Jon Derek has generously offered you an inner cap. They can also be found HERE. The following photos should help you. The heatproof washers that you need for your burner and also all the other seals for your stove can be found HERE.
Oh, Righto Derek, I'll PT you the details, I've been out all day, hadn't realized I'd two to three helpful mails, having arrived. Cheers then, Jon.
Hiya Trevor, Thanks very much indeed, for detailing your Stove is possibly the same as mine. Excellent & clear photo's, the Links you've kindly left also, will be very useful. I've just checked the diameter of the bore, just in case, and it looks to be the 17mm kit. I'm hoping nearly all of the kit can be used up, I can see the NRV check, might need retracting, because most of the online pictures, depicting these valves, have a pip, spring or some type of washer also included for view. I'd best not rush it though, I beggared the NRV up, to a special little JC Higgins British Hong Kong Rocket, months back & have only just managed to successfully remove it, without making the fount useless, in the process, phewwww !! Seized bad, then brute force went & flipped both wings of the slot screw, completely off All's well though, now. . . I just need that elusive AGM, NRV replacement, I still can't seem to trace yet, "blummin' hummers" . I'll be trying to register then, at the link, these parts have to be found, or it's a 'no brainer, no burner'. Nice one, it's much appreciated, hopefully I'll get to load the pictures, when it's up & running again, & back to good health. Cheers, Jon.
Slightly off topic but this raises a couple of questions... My Radius 5.S:eek:r doesn't have the inner ring and seems to me to work OK without one. 1. Should it have an inner ring? 2. How much difference does in make if there is one? PS. The orange in the flame is where it's burning off the stuff I used to clean it with.
In the interest of sheer curiosity, I just lit my Primus without the inner cap. It lights just as easy, but is accompanied by a slight roar as if there was some underburn going on, though there were no signs of it. I didn't run it for long, and quickly re-lit with the inner cap in place. This produced a much quieter burn and seemed to be a little more controllable at simmer, though that might have been my imagination. But it did sound better with inner cap in place. It may be that the gas flow is better contained within the outer cap with less turbulence beneath. Perhaps it was this that was causing the louder sound. Should it have an inner cap? I say yes. (An inner cap is in the post to Jonti.)
I'll have a try, with, then without the silencer cup, when all back together again, will try ordering the 'C' item, repair kit from the fettle box, some time today. I've still plenty of polishing to get finished, with the fount and leg stilts. Smart photo's, hoping mine gives a full & vigorous flame, like your own; the gas jet tip & connected tube tray, within the burner, seems 80 % clear, but I suspect it's better to remove the jet tip first, for a proper clean & inspection. Should I leave it alone, maybe it's best ? Air does fly out of it, but it warffles, like there's a small blockage ? Cheers, Jon.
Sorry Trevor, I attributed your own photo, to being Dereks, but yours looks to be burning very nicely, do you mix 10 % Naptha, in with the Paraffin, for a cleaner fuel, with the Stoves ? I do this with the lamps & it works well, there's no spot damage, or much less (BMD). As this is a free flame, it might not be that safe to try out ? Thanks, Jon.
To be honest I hadn't even spotted it wasn't there initially... When I got the stove I tried it out, it worked, so I cleaned it up photograped it for the gallery and stood it on a shelf until I read this thread and then it clicked that it was missing!
The danger is when the air valve is cracked open for shutdown. Naptha vapours could be set alight and end up in a fireball. I wouldn't go that way.
Hi Jon A couple of short answers: * Should you use an inner cap for a correct burn? - YES. * Should you use paraffin for your stove (no additives such as naptha)? - YES. I know that some lampies use naptha as a fuel additive in their lanterns - no need to do it with your stove - it will run perfectly on pure paraffin.
Hi Gneiss, I've been back to the factory today, just picking up some vents I'd had shot blasted. I mentioned the same stove I bought from the Father & Son team, appeared later to be missing the 'inner cup' ? They agreed to try and find it, so should they find it, and I end up with more than 'one', I can send you the extra. I will remember, should things go well, or not so well. There's a very cheap stove, in Ebay ATM, it looks just like mine but is a Bullfrog or fram (or what ever. . . .)? It looks good to go, burner wise, & possibly still be equip with the elusive inner cap ? £15.00 start, last I looked; it's grotty, but who care's about that! Jon.
Got that Derek, I was glad to hear the warning, I suspected it'd be first best to ask, especially with the Stove being my first & not fully knowing it's safety or working dynamics yet ! Ta very much Jon.
Champion, that then Trevor, I'll not add nowt but new Paraffin, I've to check out its operational functions, also; as I've never lit a Stove before, they seem a bit more dicey than lamps ! I'm a way off that though, but will be making a full frontal attack, once things take up momentum, getting certain house duties & the boring stuff, cleared aside. It might be three weeks yet, I'm on with a track stand as well (and more than just this, really) Cheers then , Jon.
Jon I am sure your stove will be in a workable condition soon. Before you light it, watch this excellent Youtube video made by one of the CCS members HERE.
Hiya Trevor, OOOhhpss, I still haven't got around to trying registering again, to CCS; I will be having another go later tonight, I enjoyed the Youtube video, from that one, they do seem a doddle to light. That particular example, which may have been an Optimus, was in excellent shape ! A sheen like polish, like that, is what I'm aiming for eventually. I tend to make too many scratch's, when first giving a surface the first fettle, that's because I've got into the habit of first starting with the soapy Brillo's. I'd heard another way, a while back, which involved a mix of warm acetate water & some wall paper paste. Without going round the houses, a half hour soak in this, then a good brushing in, with a stiff brush, ect; is meant to be a real good grime riser. I've not tried it out, but will one day give it a go Have a look for the Youtube video, with the Optimus 510 Burner Stove, below. . . Link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC077RQStbo Very nice indeed . . ... but while maybe that one's a 'way off', from where I'm actually standing right now, with these first few steps . . .. who knows, eh Thanks for this, that first link, really did simplify the ignition process, & I could recognize that the air pressure, be possibly the only on/off leverage, afforded that type of Stove; are most just fitted with this feature (the air bleed, ect) ? Ta, Regards Jon.
You might get the scratches out with T-Cut... that's what I use on all my lamps prior to repainting. PS. I should have a ring for my stove somewhere, it's just a matter of finding it, but thanks for the offer.
If the guys at the Powder Coaters do manage to find it, I'll send it on; but it'll maybe more likely it's not even found. Cheers for T-cut tip, Gneiss, ect, the Brillo's bought cheaply, brand wise, seem to be less harsh & I've found the pound shops retail brand, tend to be gentler & don't have too much soap attached (a good thing, cutting down the "butter-fingers", chinking the new tiling, ect) ! Just can't afford to be dishing out all the time, soaping up OOOO grade wool, for safer gunk removal; & it degrades too quick, under heavy usage. Cheers, Jon .
Have a look in the 'Fettling' section on CCS. Here's one from Stu on cleaning and polishing: http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?tid/22932/post/204291/hl//fromsearch/1/ There is a danger from polishing to such an extent, in that 1, you reduce the thickness of the metal, and 2, losing the marks as stamped into the metal. Mirror images in stoves might apply to 'shelf queens', against a working patina preferred by many. All down to personal choices at the end of the day, but polished 'antiques' are less valuable and desirable than unpolished.
