Is it impossible? Most seem to think so... I suppose this is a tale of a fettle gone wrong. I thought about posting it in Fettler's Forum but that should be for successes - this was a failure. Elsewhere I posted about a recently acquired X246B - 1964 so first year of production and just coming up to 50 years old. Shame on me - I think I have done it in - but only in the interests of fettling..!! I got it running but it had the tendency to soot up the mantle. Experts will say generator worn out and jet hole too big - could be. I was running without pricker wire - it was broken so decided to do without it - there's another possible cause of running rich. I didn't reckon the jet was much over size. It would only just pass a 0.2mm wire (anyone know what is correct size please?) Anyway what was bothering me was obvious obstructions in the mixing tube - the 3 air intake tubes had protrusions of flash which interfered with the jet stream. Turbulence I reckoned - that needs reaming out. Er - don't do this. At least don't do this with a 10mm drill bit which seems to fit just fine to begin. It passes the first section up to the air intakes easily, then it starts to bite. That seemed fair enough - it's getting rid of the flash - innit? Yes - it probably was and if it was possible to judge where it had reached it might have been possible to stop in time. I didn't. It chewed up as far as the extension tube which enters the mixing chamber. That must be less than 10mm diameter where it is attached. It broke off and now it is rattling about inside the dome. Doh! -I have wrecked it Grr. Hindsight says maybe this could be done with a 9mm drill. Maybe a simple rat tail file would have been better. Anyway - having a burner assembly which is NBG I thought I might as well see if the dome can be removed to look inside for prospective repair. Has anyone ever done this? How is mixing dome attached to the body? Screwed (not easily undone), Pressed, Brazed? Modern replacements are available - but they have been cost engineered. The 3 air intakes used to have adjustable collars to position them - modern replacements have only one. I would rather repair my original - if that is possible. Any suggestions most welcome - thanks.
The dome screws off. If it's tight try soaking it in penetrating oil for a couple of days. Failing that a few heat and quench cycles might shift it. Once you've got that off you can see what damage you've done inside and replace parts as necessary. It's not always easy to get these to screw back together depending on how eroded the threads are with the heat over the years. I wouldn't worry too much if you have to replace the whole burner. These are easily available and no-one will ever be able to tell it's been changed...
Many thanks David, it looked on some web diagrams as if it should be a screw thread. Since it was so very tight I began to doubt it. Of course it will have been cooked with heat for many years and therefore unwilling to come undone. I will give it some suitable treatments to see if it's possible to get inside in that case. So much better to know how to attack the problem. Maybe it can be rescued after all. regards
Heat where the dome screws in to dull red with a blowtorch, dunk it in water. Repeat and eventually the mixing dome will unscrew. Inbetween cycles try wiggling the dome from side to side to try and free up the threads.
It would save time and effort to get a good used burner, Base Camp have them. Put it down to experiece, 95% of burning problems on Tilley and Vapalux are down to worn vapourisers.!
Ah I guess the mods decided it was about fettling after all. I missed used burners in the Base Camp list - I must look again. Also would make sense to have a vapouriser so the pricker works once more. I'm still hoping to find out what size is the jet hole if anyone knows please? Thanks
I've never felt the need to know what the jet size is - marginally bigger than the end of the pricker wire is good enough for my purposes. I can send you a couple of used pricker wires if you think that might help...
They are rated 300CP, aren't they? In that case I would assume the orifice is 0.20 mm, or very close to it. That's pretty much standard for 300 cp paraffin lamps. If you had a very tight fit with that 0.20 wire you used as a gauge, it might be OK. Still a bit uncertain method. Aren't new (or NOS) vapourisers pretty easy to find for these?
Well, Tilley claimed 300cp, anyway. The actualité might be somewhat different - unless, of course, you're referring to the X246B I was given lately and fettled at Newark which proved almost blindingly bright and is my lantern of choice at the moment...
G,,day David . am I confused about your attitude towards X246B lanterns , or have you seen the light cheers kerry
Now and then a half decent example turns up. I have measured many new in box and they always did around 150 to 180 cp and then the week before I retired my boss asked me to fettle his old lamp which was a 70s X246B. So I replaced the seals and fired it up. Damn thing did 270 cp. Best result by far from any B lantern. So a good bright light is possible but rare. ::Neil::
G,,day , what type / sort of light meter is used to measure output ? and does it need to be done in specific conditions ? cheers kerry
Look here http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/3223 and yes you have to remove all reflected and ambient llight to get an accurate reading. ::Neil::
Thanks to advice earlier there has been success at dismantling the burner. I soaked it in penetrating oil but only for a few minutes (impatient). Then a jubilee clip tightened up for grip around the threaded end, perhaps also compressed the tube thread ever so slightly. With a bit of extra leverage from the socket and driver - it unscrewed so sweetly!! Easy peasy. Perhaps all is not lost - it seems my reaming drill caught on the threaded tube and just worked it out. The brass threads are not perfect now but I think they may still serve. I'm going to try it. Thanks for excellent advice and I hope this method might be of use to someone else.
That was too easy. The threads in the brass survived maybe not quite as deep but only needed cleaning. The tube is steel I'm sure, I removed the last two threads, which were quite chewed up ,by sanding them. I cut a chamfer for a lead in to start the thread. It screwed back in snugly and it's not about to come out. Now I have a gas flowed X246B burner...turbocharger next!
To be honest I think you are over thinking this a touch... They have probably always been there and although the right mix is a delicate balance it's not that delicate. I like the idea of the jubilee clip to undo the dome though...
Hello Gneiss - yes could be. But once I had started and I thought I had turned it into a goner there was nothing to lose. If it's done nothing else than to leave a suggestion for removing the dome it's no bad thing. The flame is good and blue running without mantle while the rubbish burns off - penetrating oil brass dust etc. Mantle going on later - then we shall see. Maybe some pictures.
I have tried burning it with a mantle for a few hours over the last couple of nights. I'm not happy - it still soots up. Initially it was down to mantle shape - at first it did not settle into a proper doughnut shape. It acquired a wrinkle which disturbed the flow of gases. That is sorted now but still it has a tendency to form carbon on the mantle. No pressure setting seems right to stop that - light output varies but sooting remains. The jet is no more than 0.2mm dia I am sure but I confess it has no pricker wire. It is a brass bottomed vapouriser though - that's good yes? There is a parallel thread running just now talking about this. Maybe we should combine them? If I could find the pricker I would fit it just to see differences - unfortunately it has gone into hiding. I know it is broken off short and will not pass the jet hole but maybe the remains would lean out the mixture enough to burn better? Last minute edit - I have already cooked all the carbon remains out of the vap tube. Before that it blocked up in seconds. Cook the top to red hot - cool- and tap out the black granules. Many found also in control cock and in mesh fuel filter. These are deadly without a pricker wire. All is clean now and a good vertical jet of fuel obtained when cold. It all burned blue without a mantle - I'm guessing pure blue is still too rich to avoid sooting up mantle. If a coleman fuelled item I would now be looking for green or purple flame not blue = weak mixture. Does kero behave like this too? I have never observed that.
Blue is good. No pricker is bad. Clean your vaporiser by heat and quench and tapping out the residue. Make sure your control cock and filter are clean. Rinse your tank out again. Use a very fine wire (say from a brass brush) to clean the vaporiser nipple. Then test again... BUT you will need either a new vaporiser with needle, or a new needle. Your black mantle is poor fuel flow and mix.
It may be a working needle is all it needs, but it's almost certainly the vapouriser worn... I had a brand new Bialaddin vapouriser a while back that suffered the same thing, I went round in circles trying everything but because it was new so couldn't possibly be that. I still don't know how a new vapouriser can have an enlarged hole but it clearly was the issue.
I have been keeping low, trying a burn every now and then. I finally found the pricker rod (been missing for some time) buried in a pile of leaves where I last dismantled it - I cleaned it up and fitted it. No great difference noticed on first firing up. The tip is short - does not protrude through jet hole. Jealous of your new find Gneiss I kept trying with more/less tank pressure and this and that. Tonight I am pleased to say it has almost caught up with your latest purchase - very bright and just one dark spot on the mantle - not big enough to matter. I think I will nick name it Jupiter - the one with the dark spot. It's good enough to use and I will try new pricker rod first - that's cheap compared to a new vapouriser and I am sure the aperture is not > 0.2mm.
Just a suggestion, but whenever I do a fettling job on a burner, before i put it back together i put a smear of copper grease on the threads. This seems to work a treat, as I can still easily strip my burners down. Try it, you will be impressed. You can buy it from any good motor factor.
Thanks - Yes I know copper grease. Actually some good news on this X246B - running in seemed to help. I left the pricker wire in even though it's tip is now too short to do much good. A few hours running and it was burning well enough to earn it's place on this summer's camping trip. It has provided the light every night for a week and no black spot! The mantle even survived the trip up on the roof rack having been sprayed with artist's fixative (similar but thinner than hair spray) burned off easily on first firing. The Coleman 226 backup survived likewise.
Thanks - Yes I know copper grease. Actually some good news on this X246B - running in seemed to help. I left the pricker wire in even though it's tip is now too short to do much good with the jet. Maybe it's presence leans the mixture very slightly since after a few hours running it was burning well enough to earn it's place on this summer's camping trip. It has provided the light every night for a week now with no black spot! It's mantle even survived the trip up on the roof rack having been sprayed with artist's fixative (similar but thinner than hair spray) which burned off easily on first firing. The mantle on the Coleman 226 backup has survived likewise with the same treatment. I always carry spares on such trips and they are usually needed on the first night - not this time
The mantle survived 250 miles back from Cornwall up on the roof rack. A pity the pump didn't. Of course there is no way the pump could be affected by that trip - it was just ready to quit anyway. Had it been used for the last night's camping illumination it would have given up in exactly the same way - the pump rod pulled through the leather washer. Due to bugging out early because of incoming rain everything was home and dry. The Tilley got a test fire at home that evening to see what had happened to the mantle. The pump gave up while lighting New pump washer is now fitted - but it went back to sooting up the mantle. Knowing from good advice (Gneiss &co thanks!) that running this old vapouriser and no pricker was trusting to luck I put a new Vapouriser in the cart too. I fitted that along with the pump refurb. Grr !! Still it runs rich. It soots the mantle and the light is yellow unless the fuel tap is backed off to lean things off a bit. That is probably putting the pricker partly in the jet. It gives a lovely white light and no mantle soot but how long before the tip burns away?? I decided to go back to the original vap tube. More observations about the new one are saved until later. There are differences. Having read about 96 stove owners who peen oversize jets I reckoned - what's to lose? I had a steel drift ( a scraper for fitting guitar bridges - and tools are multi purpose - yes?) The scraper + hammer "dinged" the jet nicely until the jet hole would just pass a single strand of 7/016 copper wire. Each strand of that is 0.16mm - a bit smaller than the 0.2mm I reckoned for a Tilley jet before . I have just lit it and it's going rather well. It still has no pricker wire but as the burner is clean (no carbon) I hope to get away with that for a bit longer. The light is white - not yellow like before. Maybe old Tilley Vap' tubes can be saved this way? Just a thought
