polish or not to polish ...

hello all in my collection i mainly have bialaddin's or vapalux lamps which are all a bit scabby paintwork they all work . what are peoples opinions should i strip the paint back and polish the tank and the frames ?? One i have has a chrome tank but is tarnished and not sure what can be done with that as don't fancy getting re chromed.The 2 tilleys i have is a pork pie and a guardsman which are in original condition in the gold livery .

matt

 

I'm very much a rookie on here and only have a couple of Tilley lamps, but my thoughts are that if the lamp is very old, rare, collectable etc. I would try to retain the original paint/finish and any decals that might still exist. Its just my personal view but a lamp thats been refinished has lost some of its character and originality, and maybe its value too!

By contrast, if its a modern lamp or one that has been repainted previously, especially if done badly, polishing it back to brass or repainting it properly, whichever you prefer, would be a good plan...

In any event I defer to the opinions of wiser and better informed members on here - which is probably just about everyone

 

It's up to the individual collector, Jeff.

 

G,,day , yes it is a personal preference /choice
but please do not use any harsh methods to clean .
sanding , blasting etc will damage the surface and lessen the appeal and appearance .
also any engraving or embossing will be damaged .
kerry

 

It's up to you of course, but I can't see the point in 'restoring' a lantern to something it never was.

If I have to strip the paint from a lantern then I respray it in the same colour (or as near as possible, which isn't difficult if you take the original paint to a motor factor who can mix car aerosol colours). If they're left polished then they need continual re-polishing. You can always respray using clear lacquer to preserve the shine...

 

I agree with David here, although I'll generally just buy the nearest off the shelf match...

Though I personally don't respray filler caps, pumps or the frames where these are brass. Just the tank normally.

 

Hello Matt as you have read it's all down to the individual.

But I agree with David, with all my stove's blowlamp's and lanterns, I like to paint or polish to its original finish but not beyond for instance if a tank on a lamp has a painted finish re paint it the same colour the closest possible colour match.

On the chromed tank I would clean the chrome with some screwed up tin foil and soapy water, I have seen this done on chrome work on American restorations with good results, then polish the chrome with standard polish

 

A highly polished brass lamp, especially in some cases burners, is a useless ornament. Polishing reduces any intrinsic value - which in itself is dictated by a market subject to whim and fancy - greed or fear. All an item needs to do is work. The rest is basic care and maintenance. Some people like pretty. I have one that is polished, but it also works and is in regular use in the kitchen - a Radius stove. There are some wickies that get the Brasso now and then, but they are basically ornaments though all in working order.

But a collector - that's not me. If you 'value' old and original, leave the patina as is. Your lamp - your choice. Some folk get great pleasure in the polishing, again, their choice.

 

i have decided a while ago im keeping the tilleys as they are as a nice aged gold colour ..

the vapalux lamp m320 is is fairly good condition with a good condition red hood

the 3 bialaddin lamps 2 are avrage condition but one is very sad works well but the hood is that used has rusted through in places and al the paint is flaking on the tank ... so im tempted just to do something with this one ..

i will get some pictures up of them soon

 

Slightly off topic, but your handle indicates you may be interested in Petter engines. Purely coincidentally, another relative newcomer has posted a link to a YouTube video that shows lighting a Bialaddin - in the background are some stationary engines - certainly one Petter there, maybe more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA103F9nvyE

 

Hi Matt I think you have made a good decision, leave all the lamps that are in good clean original condition, but I would have a go at restoring the lamp in sad flaking condition.
It is a hard decision at times choosing to either keep every thing original or fully restore, there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides.
Constantly polishing brass lamps and stoves will eventually damage a tank through wear, and any stove tanks this will flatten any engrave lettering.
If you polish a brass tank I would seal it with a clear lacquerer as the manufacturers did this will act as a protective layer and there will be no need to constantly polish to maintain the finish.
What i restore i like the look of the stove lamp blowlamp as if it was new, but not as a shelf queen but use and fire them up to me this is how they look the best, not over restored they then look old but in good condition, and they look good in a collection on a shelf etc and look good when used
.

 

just having a look an bialaddin heater needs another tank due to having being soldered up in 3 places and not good looking either.

Thanks for posting the video with engines in the background , saw a lister D , wolseley wd and a petter A . im more into petter 2 stroke engines and open small open crank engines .

cheers matt

 

I've not actually started any of my own restoration yet, but one of my Tilley lamps was looking in a bit of a sad state, so literally 30 seconds with a Scotchbrite pad on the brass tank removed most of the paint in the area and gave the brass a semi-restored look. You could obviously see the brass, but it was not polished, it still had a nice patina to it. So I think I will give the rest the same treatment, on this lamp at least.
In fact the Scrotchbrite brought up the chrome quite well on one arm. It went from being 'how am I going to get that re-plated' to 'that's finished' in about another 30 seconds.

 

thanks for that i may give it a go , just received a new lamp today a nice TL

 

If a lamp was originally painted but has been stripped by a previous owner then I will normally try to repaint it the original colour.

If a lamp has a nice original patina then I usually leave it alone.

If a lamp has a damaged patina then I will usually repolish it e.g. I found one that had bird s**t on it that had eaten into in the patina.

Sometimes the patina gets tarnished during restoration e.g. I recently had to resolder a pump tube and the heat blackened the brass.

I will typically spray lacquer on the lamp after polishing to protect the brass from the elements.

Each to his own I suppose.

 

I only have one pressure lamp that is meant to be brass, a brass finish Tilley...

All the rest were originally painted, so they have been restored to a paint finish.

The brass Tilley I polished once and since then I've just used car wax to keep it looking shiny even though the brass is slowly darkening.

 

aged gracefully . well that's the way i like to think of it .

polished once , if necessary because of neglect and filth on them .
then only cleaned of dirt , el natural .
cheers,
kerry

 

If it was a Silver Shadow Rolls Royce.......what would one do?/ I suppose its personal taste really.

 

G,,day . interesting comment .
some vintage and veteran cars have a lot more charm and appeal in their original unrestored state than one that looks new .
once again , personal choice .
cheers,
kerry

 

I'll recount an anecdote that is appropriate to this.
My father works for a company that restores and race prepares historic F1 racing cars.
They had a late 70's Mclaren in the workshop that is actually still being raced. They noticed some cracking around the rivets on the body, but the body is in some areas a part of the monocoque chassis.
So to keep within FIA regs they had to drill out the rivets, remove the panel in question, use the original panel as a template to cut round and recreate the panel, rivet it in place and paint in the Mclaren orange and white.

Now to keep this car racing, is surely the right thing to do. But in doing so an original part of the car, even the dozens of rivets, have been removed and lost. The panel will stay 'with the car' and it has not been thrown away. But the car is now a little bit less original.

Our little lamps may be in a different league, but I think the principle is still there. At what price is the restoration?

 

G,,day . it would have been nice to keep the car totally original .
but practicality and safety dictates otherwise .
no problems .
also to be able to keep using it as intended it had to be done .
it means it is used and enjoyed .
i cannot realy enjoy some thing fully by keeping it shiny and on a shelf and never using it .
but that's me .
if its not your way , i accept it , don't have to like it .
cheers,
kerry

 

Sometimes, you acquire a lamp in such a state that you really have no option. I have had a couple where the paint had either been stripped for polishing, or was so badly damaged that repainting was the only way to go, but I can see both sides of the argument.

 

Well it's a good question but I'd ask whether it was certain the car was 100% original anyway - it's likely many parts including whole engines and panels, even body-shells had been changed over the years.

It could be like the hammer I 'acquired' at one factory where I worked as a student around 40 years ago. It's had a replacement head and three new shafts but it's definitely the same hammer!

 

Pretty much the same with lamps, a service kit here,a new vapouriser there,the occasional new burner, a replacement hood and lots of new mantles,
yet it is still the lamp you bought.

 

I agree John.........theres just no way you can say for sure that anythings is original including myself lol...dental treatment operations etc lol but i do have one thing my Fender Precision Bass 1977 guitar i can vouch for that is still like it came out of the shop all parts the very same.....of course there a few knocks and belt scratches but no parts been taken off or replaced thats original.Lamps well,as yu say take of a vap,control cock,hood etc and replacing them then yu cant say its "Original" can yu?lol

 

G,,day Tomcat .

just laughing mate , have you never put a new string on your guitar

it is very true nearly impossible to have something totally original .

but I do wish people would describe things more accurately ,
I just looked at a lantern on e bay , description was excellent condition , the bail was nearly all rust covered .
the hat had chips and rust in numerous places ,
the nickel plated tank looked like an extreme case of acne rust , and this is excellent .
I would hate to see his version of rough or very average !!!!!!!!!!

cheers,
kerry

 

I think it depends upon the collector, but I like to have a mixture of some items being as close as I can possibly get them to original and others I am happy to leave them in 'aged' condition. A few I might even give them some new zest, perhaps a fount painted in a color to spark interest for a display. Similarly with parts do I add brass washers where steel once was? I guess the important thing is that we all enjoy our lanterns and collections.

Iain Sedgman

 

It's a hot topic amongst many who restore. Is the Dunkirk 'Little Ship' the original? Or has it had sufficient woodwork replaced over the years that there are just a few cabin sides and fittings original to 1940 or before? Is the 'Flying Scotsman' steam loco the original? Or do you have to seek out a half dozen rivets that were? Even steam loco's in service were thoroughly maintained during their working lives, far more so than in restoration due to intensive use.

One wag on the historic boat forum put up a handful of rusty rivets for sale with the comment: "Original 1936. Basis for a restoration project of a seventy footer". (Just the rivets you understand).

Usability is down to replacing worn parts as and when, otherwise it's a museum piece gathering dust. Some like it that way. Some place greater value that way. I like original, but I like usable as well.

 

I like to part up the lamp in materials when it comes to (for me) rare lamps. Userlamps is another thing.
If brass is aged natural and clean over time, I usually dont polish it while it is the natural state it will go back to anyway.
If it is iron and it is rusty because the lack of protective paint in a larger scale - then I remove rust and paint. But if the rust is only spots I spotpaint and leave on the original paint.
If I have a plated fount where the use of it have worn the most of the plating of then I never remove the rest of the chrome/nickel just to make it "look good".
If the glass on a old lamp is shifted from ex. "Original Phoebus" to "ScottSuprax Tingwon Jena" then I shift the glass to a glass without print or even sandblast a new "origin" logo in the glass telling it to no-one.
I generally think painted brass lamps should keep the origin paint, while a repaint never would hit the exact colour ever Again and that I find very important.
A lot of fettlers are very clever and good though in matching the right colour because the go to a painter to messure the colour by the use of devices and that is the least you should do when painting.
The same with enamelling hoods - you have to hit the correct colour or else dont get a good result and its a bit advanced fx see this innerhouse for a lamp:



You can see the first layer is blue/purple, second layer is Black and last is White.

Normally this is done to give the right glance and if you sandblast all original material away and leave it to a garage-enamel or even a pro then they cant bring back the correct glance.
Yes, David, the hammer-story is in a long way correct I think but after a kidney-, a heart-, a hip-, a liver- and a lungtransplant you might start to think how much is yourself when they offer you a braintransplant.
I think it is not a question of making it Work. When I look at a lamp it is important for me to see the true soul of lamp and that is something I judge from lamp to lamp when recieving them home.
There is nothing like the feeling of bygone eras in the air when holding a origin lamp.

Claus C

 

This has been a very interesting and use full topic, I personally think depending on the circumstances the type the age and its history and the owners preference in to polish or not to polish.

Reading Derek's response on a traction engine train etc it only need's one part for the engine to be classed as a original, unless in the last few years the rules have changed.

It is nice having a item that is totally original IE a lamp but but over the years most have had a part or two replaced.

I personally think certain materials certain antiques look there best with a patina and some look better polished, for example bronze looks and suits at is very best with aged patina brass especially copper to me and traditionally looks best polished.
At the end of the day we can go to far in restoring a item making it look to new different and taking away its history, as well as going to far in just leaving a collectible original