Just been over on Bushcraftuk and saw a thread about burning Paraffin in lamps and heaters and the health issues like sooting and Carbon Monoxide. Seeing as though the age of Paraffin appliances is long gone in most places and the use of them is more infrequent, does anyone know of any health issues in burning Paraffin indoors? Steve
I can share my experience on that, last night I had my bialaddin bowl fire running for quite a number of hours. But before the end of the evening, the carbon monoxide detector in the room sounded. I soon put it out, but I don't think I'll be using it for any length of time again.
Hi guys, burning any fuel with restricted air supply (i.e. indoors with minimal ventilation) will result in increased CO production - common sense and you'll be fine
Yeah I had the same thing with my Bialaddin BF - was running it indoors for about an hour and it set off my CO alarm. The room has an air vent for a back boiler so ventilation should be okay.
These things were designed for indoor use in the times when houses were draughty places and double glazing was unheard of. Most houses had open fires which needed a gale of air to feed enough ozygen to them to burn right. In a place like that a bowl fire running would never be a problem because there would be fresh air blowing through the rooms to keep the CO and CO2 down well below problem levels. In this modern age we pretty well seal off our houses with tight fitting doors and windows which means it can be dangerous to burn any fuel in the house. You just need to be aware and make sure you have a CO alarm. ::Neil::
Exactly as Neil says. Carbon Monoxide poisoning has killed many and almost always due to a lack of ventilation. This has often been the case on boats, where a small coal fired stove has been banked up for an overnight burn, and the hatches closed to keep out the cold and draughts. Lack of oxygen causes the fire to dwindle and give off more CO which with nowhere to go in a closed hull, sends the sleeping occupants into everlasting sleep. Even gas and oil fired boilers within houses have to have standards of ventilation often through underfloor ducts or airspace fed through air bricks to meet the requirements of building regulations. Burning a fuel requires oxygen. So do our bodies. Feed one completely will deny the other.
We have one of those open coal effect fires in our lounge which required the fitting of an air vent in the room direct to the outside... So yes modern houses are an issue. One thing to remember though is that these alarms are extremely sensitive and detect levels well below that that presents a risk, much like the smoke alarm that goes off every time you make toast.
Yes - sensitivity. I once stopped ten feet away from a parked car on my motorbike, and the cars alarm went off with an audible message: "Please move away from the vehicle" repeated every ten seconds. Nice to know when you're not wanted.
Well guys I have read some where anything that is burnt, does produce a certain amount of carbon monoxide, the amount produced depends on how well the fuel is combusted. And as Neil mentioned these devices were designed and made for indoor use, in older houses there was a lot more ventilation, being as there were more draughts as most houses had no double glazed windows or doors, there was no cavity wall insulation or loft insulation as there is of today and most older houses had air bricks for ventilation in the walls. And most instructions of these oil burning products IE heaters lanterns etc, were advised to use in a adequately ventilated area. My house was built in 1967, and has since been double glazed had loft insulation and cavity wall insulation. The gas central heating i have was once powered by a coal fired back bolier, and there is only one large radiator and gas fire that heats both the dinning and lounge, and a small radiator in the hall way. When it is quite cold the hall way especially the radiator is not enough so I have a paraffin heater out there and one in the dinning room next to my pc. I all ways have a carbon monoxide tester plugged in, and make sure there is ventilation and so far the paraffin heaters have never set of the carbon monoxide tester or the smoke alarm. I agree with Gneiss, these alarms are very sensitive and will go off well before carbon monoxide reaches a dangerous level.
Don't forget that CO binds with the haemaglobin (sp?) in your blood and isn't unbound by oxygen meaning that repeat exposure is a problem so it's well that the alarms are set at a low level! As it has a cumulative effect it can be a bit of a problem... IIRC the only way to get CO out of the blood is in a hypobaric (sp?) chamber like used to treat divers for the Bends. Ventilation is good We have draughty double glazing, underfloor vents but we still leave a window open a crack when we light our fire
Carboxyhaemoglobin is unbound by oxygen - hence the treatment - hyperbaric oxygen i.e. administered above normal atmospheric pressure. In any case, red blood cells are produced at a rate of over 2 million per second and completely recycled within three months. The cumulative effects would be relatively short-term unlike, say, heavy metals which accumulate during the entire lifespan. Repeated low-level exposure to carbon monoxide may present a problem but I think it's likely the signs and symptoms would become apparent before toxic levels are reached, unlike acute episodes which are often fatal. None of this is in any way intended to make light of the risks of carbon monoxide. If I was using a BBF and a CO detector triggered, I'd be switching if off toute d'suite, increasing ventilation and not using it frequently on a long-term basis. A good clean and service might be called-for, too...
Yes, when I mentioned the sensitivity of these detectors I certainly wasn't suggesting that it should be ignored. My point was that even in days of more drafty houses, when these products were in more common use, the level could have regularly been well above that detected by these sensors but no one would have been any the wiser or noticed any ill effects... very much a case of ignorance was bliss...
Thanks David, both for the spelling correction and for correcting my misconceptions Another reason I love this site - I learn so much, and not just about paraffin appliances!!!
Still very new on here and exploring, hence finding this thread... I concluded that care needs to be taken in relatively modern houses (ours is late 60's) especially when they are double-glazed, as most are now. I use my recently fettled Tilley (in fact I now have the second one working too) outside when the weather is good, but also in my shed and indoors, having recently rediscovered how nice the light is and how relaxing the gentle hiss. Fortunately my 'minister for the interior' likes these same attributes and is more than happy to have a lamp burning indoors. I decided the best and probably the safest location for 'all evening' use is in the fireplace, where it sits on the fire-grid on a piece of board (which will double as an indicator of any leaks)... Hopefully most of the exhaust exits vertically up the chimney, while the light projects cozily into the room
It is not the carbonmonoxide you have to pay much attention as a healthrisk here - despite it can kill if not ventilated proper. The real danger in using these lamps indoor is partikels. Anything burning petrol, kerrosene, oil etc. produces so fine partikels at the nano-scale that they goes in your loungs. The biggest will attach to the slimy parts of your breathing-system and you will cough them up or swallow them. The middleparts will attach to your alveoles Deep in your loungs and they will not come out. The finest of them will go Deep in the loungs and penetrate the body-tissue and enter your bloodways travelling around your body, doing the damage still to be discovered and some known. The known proven effects is toxcid influence giving inflammation in the loungs. The poorer a burning, the more big particels and the better a burning, the more fine particels. I only in rare cases light up a kerosene-lamp inside the house, usually I use alcohol-lamps or gasoline. Even gasoline is restricted here back home. Kerosene-lamps, outdoor- as indoorlamps, should all be categorised as outdoor-lamps. Claus C
Thats food for thought Claus... I would agree that all fuel burnt will generate particles, in the same way that diesel and petrol engines... Part of the reason I have been putting the lamp in a fireplace is so the exhaust ahd heat will 'draw' up the chimney, which is a real one that discharges just above roof level... I am assuming (hoping) that the lack of any soot stains on the wall above the hearth or on the ceiling are an indication that the exhaust, together with very nearly all of any particles of soot, is being drawn up the chimney and out of the house. I've also noticed the chimney draws air from the living room (tested with sheet of newspaper) by convection even when there is no fire/lamp burning in the hearth, which indicates that there is at least some fresh air ventilation other than the chimney... I appreciate your input on this and i'll certainly keep a very close eye open for any soot staining in the house and I know that my 'minister of the interior' will soon be on the case if she notices any too
God, it's a wonder humankind has managed to survive into the 21st century. All these particles since the discovery of fire millennia ago...
How about those who survived through childhoods spent in the likes of London Smogs (and elsewhere)? We knew it stunk, we tried to keep it out of our homes, but ultimately we experienced and endured. We sprayed Flit at flies inside the house from Flit Guns, we sometimes ate coal, used paraffin to clean our paint encrusted hands - and my Nan sat in a room heated by a paraffin stove - she lived to be 95. We are survivors of many things - can we survive the health and safety zealots? More young people today suffer from an assortments of ills and allergies due in part to an antiseptic environment where everything is "dangerous". As Nan would say: "You'd have to eat a peck of dirt before you die". ('Peck'; a unit of two gallons.) Knowledge and care help undoubtedly, but some smells are wonderful - particles or no: steam oil; coal smoke; burning wood; smouldering dung heaps; a field of ripe corn; salt spray; someone elses cigar smoke (can't smell it when smoking one which is one reason I don't smoke), and I'm sure we all have our different favourites. No offence meant - and I hope none taken.
In respect of the sacrifice of your forefathers you shoudnt forget this: http://www.eh-resources.org/timeline/timeline_industrial.html They did a good job back then cleaning up the mess from people saying "we all need a load of crab each year to survive" and this saying is also heard here back home. And yes - loads of people died back then, even the guy, who would have solved the cancer-riddle years ago unfortunately. hmmm. pity. That is in a bigger scale not much different to what this thread is about. I dont agree with fanatics either and like Derek, I love the smell of parafin in the morning. If you are living with the lamps lighted daily within 4 walls though using them as light and heat-givers - then you should start to consider other alternatives or live with the problems to come. The lamps dont give soot like a normal wicklamp or a fireplace, the particles is much smaller and much more un-healthy and the proven effect is as described. The same reason cars need catalysators and filters today. The thread was started: "does anyone know of any health issues in burning Paraffin indoors?" All our lamps is categorised indoor or outdoor lamps after the look but very often the burners is the same, so Indoor and outdoor is a mis-guiding Word if you look at the pollution they make and the precautions you have to take. OldGreyDogs precaution by moving the lamp near the airdraging chimney is a good and simple way to solve spreading of particles in the air. "I need a load of crab every year" is not I think, but I get a smile on my face imagining this old iron-lady pointing it out. My fair wife gets headache when I start a kerrosene or a petrol lamp here back home and I care about that. She loves the lamps though, so because of this low-scientific observation I assume the scientist from the Danish state might be right in their highscientific and I take the lamps out where we can enjoy them in the fresh air on the porch. I dont want my wife to have a headache before bedtime you see. Claus C
Try putting a bottle of aspirin or paracetamol on her bedside table as you're getting into bed. She'll say, 'what do I need those for? - I haven't got a headache' And there you are...
Hope I have not started a fire by resurecting this thread. I just spotted it while exploring, as noob's do... I had already decided that due to the exhaust from the lamp, Using it indoors would need careful placement to avoid 'kippering' us and turning the ceilings black. I very much appreciate Claus's input on the particulate output issue too as I had not really considered it (thinking only soot) and don't want to risk my wife's or my own health. I place the lamp in use in the hearth, on the fire-grid (on a piece of timber packing to prevent scratches). In this position it is directly under the flu and the exhaust has a vertical exit straight up the chimney. The natural convection of a proper chimney together with the heat from the lamp should vent all of the exhaust, including particulate matter, straight up the chimney and out of the house - as happens when we have a log fire at Christmas etc. It's also in the best place should It have a small leak, or if I mess up and cause a flare-up... For clarity, here's a photo of the newer of my pair of Tilley's in position and ready to go... Here's hoping Using lamps in this position is not gonna' cause harm to our health!
I will start using this my self (when wifys not home), didnt think of that before. I even think it is possible to put the lamp on the tiles in front of the chimney, while a chimney drag air itself pretty good. Also making it possible to enjoy the look of the lamp more. There is something natural by a light near the fireplace anyway David, the pill-trick wont Work, she already tried on me just with a blue pill and a glass of beer. Claus C
