Running diesel in a Petromax-clone

I'm not inclined to run diesel in my Aida, Standard, or Butterfly since kerosene is still readily available. But, could I?

 

Hello AL, the answer is no!

I cannot recall if any lanterns have been designed to run on diesel, Jeff.

 

Diesel is heavier than paraffin and less volatile. It would take a lot to vapourise it and it tends to burn with a sooty flame. I think it would clog your lamps up in no time.

I bought a Vapalux M320 some time ago. It was an ex-military lamp and the fuel in the tank smelled like a mixture of diesel and petrol. It did run on that military concoction but I have no idea what the ratio of diesel to petrol was and I would not recommend it for safety reasons.

 

Thank you both! I was just curious since I do keep a lot of diesel around for the farm equipment. I also have capacity for 15 gallons of kerosene, so I don't suppose I'll have a shortage any time soon.

 

I tried this with a Tilley some years ago. There was no useful light until I got down to a 25% diesel 75% kero mix and even then it was not good. So forget it, diesel does not work in kero lamps. ::Neil::

 

I was browsing on the Pelam.de website this evening and found a thread about running a Petromax 500 HK on diesel. Several users say the lamp will run well on diesel but that it is more likely to clog the vapouriser. To get round this the suggestion is not to run the lamp for short periods as this makes it more likely to clog. As the vapouriser in Petromax lamps can be fairly easily cleaned it might be worth a go.

 

Paraffin is still cheaper than diesel here, but I wondered since I have at least 20 gallons of diesel on hand between fuel cans, and what's in equipment. Good to know!

 

I found some more information on diesel in Petromax lanterns. Apparently Petromax did say diesel could be used but only in emergencies (this was from a very old instruction leaflet). Depending on the type of diesel used the pre-heater may or may not work. If the pre-heater works it needs longer than when using paraffin, at least 90 seconds perhaps more. If pre-heating with alcohol it needs 3 or more full dishes of alcohol to get the vapouriser hot enough.

Some users have reported that the lamps overheat on diesel because diesel has a higher calorific value than paraffin so they suggest swapping a 500 HK jet for a 350 if there is a problem.

I found various discussions about whether one brand of diesel was better than another and whether premium diesel produced better results but it wasn't really relevant to me because the were all German brands. In any case, paraffin is cheaper for me than diesel so I won't be trying this!

 

Hi all ,

I have a Sea Anchor 350 C.P. that I run usually on kerosene (paraffin oil), but I've tested with normal diesel fuel from my car and runs almost the same as kerosene. I don't recommended inside (although I've tested inside), but for outside is excellent. I mention that the diesel fuel that I use is very good quality and have additives. There was just little smoke when I started (with the rapid preheated, not with spirit preheat) and when I turned off. I burn a full tank of diesel (more then 6-7 hours) and I didn't have any problems yet. I've try also my Hasag lamp (from the '50th) to run on alcohol but unsuccessful. Here is burning with diesel for cars: http://youtu.be/wHfthRN5748

 

Hi!
Surely a paraffin lanterns will run well on diesel ...for a while.
The problem will come up later when the carbon has built up in the vaporizer. And those with Preston Loops are difficult to clean. For this reason I only use straight ones to make experiments with different fuels.
To use alcohol you will have to modify a lantern that was built for gasoline / paraffin. There are several threads here in the forum which deal with this matter. But I'd not recommend to use highly flammable fuels like alcohol or gasoline in a lantern that was built for paraffin because it usually lacks some important safety features such as fuel shut-off valve etc.
BR, Martin

 

Some will and some won't. Tilley and Biladdin/Vapalux will not work at all on Diesel. It seems that Preston loop lamps will but I would suggest only in an emergency as the carbon build up will clog the generator much faster than kero. ::Neil::

 

German forum.pelam.de has some threads on running Petromaxes on Diesel:

thread 1 , thread 2 , thread 3 .

Some say have good experiences. Some remarks taken from the treads:
-Preheat time has to be longer, up to 2 minutes.
-Could modern diesel be better for lamps than diesel from the 60-ies? And is premium diesel even better?
-Petromaxes are self-cleaning when running for a longer period of time (some hours)
-Some carbon builds up, but the lamp keeps running.
-350's are better suited than 500's, because diesel gives off more energy.
-Diesel is relatively cheap and easy to get.
-Generators can be cleaned. The straight generators are easier cleaned than the Preston loops.
-It could be mixed with white gasoline (wasbenzine, Coleman Fuel, Rheinbenzin) . Accounts state from 20% up to one-third.

I'm thinking of testing it myself, because it would be very nice if it works. Image to get lamp fuel (diesel) everywhere in town for a fair price (gas stations). Hope it doesn't stink like car gasoline does.
Many say that a Petromax doesn't run on diesel, but few have tried and reported.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Came back to this thread out of curiosity. Many "preppers" here in the States swear by kerosene appliances, but their logic fails me. Alcohol and bio-diesel are home brew fuels, but kerosene is not. Where do they think they'll get more kerosene from if all goes down the tubes?

Is there a way to refine/crack diesel to make kerosene/paraffin?

 

Maybe not everything on the pelam forum is correct ?

The whole idea of the preston loop is to induce more heat to the fuel.
With enough preheat: diesel will burn like any cooking oil will. But thest is something different then is is safe or advisable.

The straight petromax vaporizer is like the Tilley models by design not heated enough for heavier fuel then kerosene.

Preston loop vaporizer can be "cleaned" but it depends on what you call clean(ed).

"Petromax" can not have said nor written something because it is a brand name. E&G however have in there old catalogues different types of vaporizers for different fuels.
See my website: http://petromax.nl/PX_datum.html

By design however the preston loop would be the better choose for diesel.

The problem with forums is that people post that something works. But it doesn't mean it should, if you get the message/idea.

 

Edit: biggest problem is in fact that someone once said they are multifuel lanterns.

 

Manuals say that a Petromax can run on diesel (in emergencies) and users have reported that it runs on diesel. Also the Britelyt site says so. So that's confirmation that it can run on diesel.

Besides, it can be fun to play with it. I have an 826 that I have plans for ..

 

The long-chained hydrocarbons in Diesel fuel will clog the vaporizer much earlier with carbon residues because cracking processes when cooking/evaporating. These residues are difficult to remove completely from the Preston loop. That's why you should use Diesel fuel only short time (e.g. in emergencies). The same but even more serious applies for RME (rapeseed oil methyl ester, vegetable oil methyl ester e.g. contained in Bio-Diesel). Mixing it with petrol/gasoline will obviously not prevent from building up carbon residues, but will only help to light up easier.

 

Here they are selling three different diesel. Normal diesel for summer use. Winter diesel for winter use in Southern parts. Arctic diesel for winter use up North (and cold winters in South also). Here more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel

Some people have used arctic diesel in lanterns with some/good success. Arctic diesel is diesel that is more close to kerosene than normal diesel.

Anyway I think that kerosene is better option as told in previous posts.

How to clean the Preston loop? Straight tube is very easy to clean but it there some way to get Preston loop cleaned?

 

I have really enjoyed this thead
Well done Neighbor Al

 

Is it just distillation in correct temperature?

 

Cracking is a process of heating a heavier product to break the bonds to create lighter products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracking_%28chemistry%29

I'm not sure that it's something someone could do at home to biodiesel...

 

True cracking is what cracking is, but what would happen if you just distill bio diesel with your normal ("moon shine" ) distillation pot? Thermal cracking was maybe the first method they used when they tried/used in separation of different parts from crude oil.

If you distill bio diesel at home you maybe would need to do few "runs" in different temperatures to get too flammable parts out first and then make lantern fuel "run".

 

Britelite is not a company I would referr to as being "reliable" for their information. (use the search option)

This also is valid for manuals. From which company ? Experiences form forum members is not a reliable source either.
When I state it will run on vegetable oil and it will, is then the truth for "petromax designed lanterns burn on vegetable oil" ?

Any fuel will burn (more or less) in a pressure lantern but they ain't designed for it.

My remarks are "as is" do not try this at home !

 

I run Diesel in one of my PX 829B lanterns. To delay clogging, I use Aral premium diesel, wich is a special distillate of BP in Germany. As already mentioned above, the use of Diesel was officially allowed for ermegency use of the Bundeswehr lanterns (paragraph k in the Second picture).




Cheers,
Götz

 

Hi Wim,

Do you have any proof, arguments, reference, actual experience or any other "hard data" that a Petromax cannot run on diesel?
Or is it your personal believe that a Petromax should not run on diesel?

I've read the stories about a Petromax not designed for diesel and so forth. But frankly, anyone can say anything and that doesn't make it true. Seeing is believing imho.

Thnx,
Peter

 

What I hear Wim saying is that diesel might run in a Petromax for a while. But it is not the optimal fuel and is likely to coke up the vapourizer and significantly shorten the life of the lantern. I could run straight kerosene in my diesel tractor, but that would not be such a good idea in the long run...

 

Please for all people here translate the whole section.
Because the last sentences give you the answer.

@Dutch_Peter
On the first petromax meeting in Menden, we spoke with the engineer of the Graetz Werke in Altena.

 

Here you go:

In emergencies you can run the lantern on diesel. In this case it is necessary to clean the vaporizer with a wire or else replace the vaporizer in shorter intervalls. Preheating time before lighting approximately 80 seconds.


Regards,
Götz

 

The key phrase here would appear to be "in and emergency".

Well, "in an emergency" I could probably be persuaded to jump off a ferry. That doesn't make it a good idea to do so routinly...

 

Cannot help with discussion on merits of diesel. Never used it. However comment by Neighbour Al caught my attention.

Unlike USA where I suspect kero is available from a pump, here in Australia, even in large 20 litre drums it is about $3 to $4 a litre, Diesel is presently a bit dearer than petrol which hit a long time low of $1 a litre in Melbourne. So diesel I recollect is roughly $1.40 per litre. Perhaps here in Australia we are getting ripped off for kero.

Also as a kid I used to collect kero from local dealer via a bowser but have not seen this option for thirty years or so.