The NRV from the pump of this Aladdin on the left was so stuck that even after one week of being soaked (in the tank and the pump shaft) in penetrating solution, I twisted one of loco7lamp's NRV removers! All fixed now...
Tony . Sometimes if they are tight try hot water inside the font and drop the font into another pot of hot water keep it hot for a while to expand the brass a bit then give it a try . Bob . Looks like you ate to much Spinach Popeye
Don't get me wrong: Stu's NRV tools are great! This was one very, very stuck NRV. The last time I had one this bad (without Stu's remover), it was so ruined I had to desolder the pump tube to get it out... Tony
Many of the NRVs i have removed have been tight as "#!!. So i did it like this. Day 1. Spray WD40 or similar down the pump-tube. Day 2-3. Wait. Day 4. Try by hand with tool. If stuck, put tool in small drill with hammer function. Set hammer to appropriate level (by gut). Hammer down. If still stuck. Repeat from Day 1.
I have had a good success rate by heating up the cheap badly fitting Primus type tool red hot and fitting it onto the stuck nrv a few times. That plus penetrating oil. The worst are the ones with no lead seal because you can't tighten it a fraction and then turn it out.
Thats a good tip Phil. ill have a go with that later on this 119n that wont move whatever i do. Why didnt they use leadwashers on all NRVs?
I just used that technique on a sweet little Primus 992 lamp that came my way for less than a tenner two weeks ago. Every time I inserted the red hot tool into the pump tube I imagined it making contact with the fundament of its maker... I seem to remember that the Radius 119 NRV was different from the Primus type and has a reputation of being harder to remove. Perhaps a Radius fundi can provide more info?
Lead shortage in the post ww1 pre ww2 period? Because non of the NRVs i removed from the radiuses had any leadwashers.
I came up with a idea for modifying the NRV tool to keep constant preassure against the NRV during attemts to removing it. You get a NRV tool, best the ones that at closed to the sides. Use a hammer to tap out the handelbar. Then take a small hoseclamp that would fit inside the pumptube. Measure out were on the tool to put it and tighten it like hell, alternatively make a small grove for a tighter fit. Now get a pumplid, drill the hole up to fitt the toolrod and mount it. Refit the handelrod and you are there. Would it work you think? //Fjellot
Yes it works. It's actually just a variation of the best tool already made for this purpose-the Primus No.1596. They made one of these where you use a pump cap to secure the tool against the NRV, and I have made several versions of this kind myself with great success. Some more elaborated ones in the lathe, but also an easy makeshift version anyone can do. And it works!
My quick and dirty tool. Standard T-handle, long extension, 12mm socket, primus type pump cap and piece of steel bolt with 12mm hex ground on one end and "precision" slot cut with a Dremel disc on the other end. The insulation tape not only keeps things together but also protects the pump shaft. I'm sure it can be improved on, but it has not failed me so far.
Phil, that's generally all it takes. A 5 mm (generally) slot in a steel piece which fit snugly into the pump tube. Easy to make and well working. But for those really stubborn NRV's, a stop just under the screw cap that holds the tool down against the NRV is needed. Like on the Primus No.1596 I mentioned above. It's unbeatable. Here's a couple of variants. The simple one made out of a threaded rod is easy to make, but still works surprisingly well. You operate it with a suitable wrench or adjustable spanner. I actually just made it to test the theory before turning the more "serious" one below it: Here's a smaller version for apparatus with the narrower pumptubes, e.g. Radius lamps using stove tanks:
The stop is an an excellent idea. I will have to incorporate it in the next tool I make. If the stop were to lock against the pump cap and the thread pitch on the shaft were the same as that of the NRV, then the NRV could be turned out in one go. Thanks for the photos.
Yes, the stop really does it. If you are working with lamps that have the same pump length, you could have a fixed stop. I made mine adjustable just because it should be useable on different apparatus. Plus the fact that it varies how deep the NRV sits. Sometimes the washer is missing, which position it deeper. ...and here's a clip to show what we talk about in case it's unclear for someone what the meaning of a support/stop beneath the pump lid to force the tool firmly seated against the NRV is all about. As you can see, the NRV actually can be taken out in one go despite the pitch being different. Since the pitch of the tool's stop thread is coarser than the one of the NRV, it's no problems to continue to rotate the tool once the NRV is free. On those with a fixed stop, you must of course release the cap directly once the valve is broken free.
Hi Fellas, I have found this post very interesting and informative thanks Tony, Christer and others for the great picks and the clip which cleared something up for me,i have a Primus 1051 with a stuck fast NRV, tried most of the good tips here mentioned, not a budge, are they normal right hand thread on these lamp? Second question,on your removal tool Christer, and others like it, the pump cap is needed to force the tool tight onto the NRV, 1051's are a large pump cap, I do not want to ruin the original, any suggestions as to what will screw on in its place to force the tool down tight onto the NRV? thank you all, Frank
Hello all, from my experience with some different lantern types there's (almost?) no left hand thread at the bottom of the pump tubes. Only some valve caps (e.g. at some Ditmars) have left hand threads. Despite all enthusiasm about the usage of effective valve removal tools I'd like to bring in mind that the torque that is applied by the tool will have to be handled by the pump tube assembly itself as well. There were three cases from my own experience where I broke the pump tube or the bottom / thread of it (without damaging the valve head) when trying to loosen the valve. So at very hardly stuck valves I now do some careful thermal / WD40 treating, and if that is not successful I remove the whole tube to get better access to the stuck valve. IMHO this seems to be the better (more gentle) way to solve the problem. BR, Martin
Frank: the 1051 uses the normal Primus type NRV tool and has a normal thread. It is not the same valve as all the others though as it is slightly larger. Be careful with it as these are starting to be like hens teeth. They might still have them at Fogas but I'm not sure. I have a 1050 where the top of the valve has been chewed off and the only option is to drill it out. Luckily I have one spare left.
You will probably have to make one yourself. Or have it made by someone else. It's not so hard to turn these in a lathe. Alternative is to find a scrap 1051, but that's perhaps not so easy.
Thanks Nils and Christer for the replies, the NRV is still in pretty good condition, thanks for the tip on their scarcity, when I get the cap thing worked out with a new valve remover as per pictures I will try again
And a lot of penetrating oil too, of course. It can't hurt. That's the beauty with combining all old remedies with a hold-down-tool; it doesn't matter how oily the NRV is. It won't accidentally slip and damage it.
Drilling mission is a success! I was worried that i would drill in to the NRV in a angle and destroy some or all of the NRV seating, i was actually prepared for it... But no.. the darn thing worked. Here is what i did. I bought a 6mm drill that was 300mm long. Since the NRV housing is like 7mm i thought it would be possible. Then the plan was to drill up the hole in a pumplid to have as support and direction for the drill, but no need since the hole was 6mm and the drill fitted snugly. Started drilling with the lid and center hole in the NRV as guidance. Stopped and checked a few times and took the opportunity to use compressed air to blow out brass, the less that makes it in to the tank the better. Suddenly i was through and the back end of the NRV dropped down in to the tank. After more air and shaking out the NRV back end it was clear i was dead on. I can even reuse the back end since it wasn't damaged at all and the leftover of the front end easily came of. Now it was only the leftover of the frontend of the NRV still in its place in the pumptube bottom. I used a 6mm wide flat screwdriver that i pushed down in the drilled hole and the whole thing was real easy to unscrew. But the NRV did have a washer, so i was confused why it was stuck so hard. The explanation came when i checked the washer and realised that it was a BRASS washer. How odd is that? Anyhow. Soon another 119 will be brought back to life. Cheers. Here is some pictures to.
Strange but not unique with a brass washer. There was a brass washer on a lantern I fettled not so long ago. Of course I can't remember which lantern it was now, but I think it was an Optimus. Anyway, well done Lennart and I'm looking forward to seeing the lantern lit.
