Hi folks, at last Newark I bought my first bowlfire, a rebuild Bialaddin one. After fixing some leaks (washers etc.) it was time to give it a try! Very long pre heat (large priming tray with big wick, used more than double dose I use for stoves & lanterns) and then...... Not much! There are flames alright, but the mesh only gets dull red, not the bright orange I see in photo's. Then, after a while, the flame starts to wander downwards and finally goes out (very messy and stinky bussiness!!!). The weak flames might be a choked vapouriser, but why does the flame "drop down"? Any help much appreciated! Best regards, Wim
I'm thinking the opposite problem. Too rich / not enough air. The flame (probably yellow and cold) drops because it's looking for the free air below the mesh to sustain itself. Not enough fuel & too much air would be a small blue flame high in the mesh? Further thought for you Wim - I suppose the vapouriser is delivering in the right direction? Not having one of these I don't know how they behave if the vapour stream is off sideways due to a mis-shapen jet orifice.
Hi Jon, at start up I get nice, but small flamelettes at the burner. These kinda disappear and a (still bleu) flame drops down slowly on the mesh. When at the bottom, it dies... .This does not happen in an even manner, it starts at one side of the burner, the rest still showing the flamelettes and then following after a short time. Best regards, Wim
If the flame is blue the mixture isn't too bad. Now I think you might be right about a choked vapouriser. Here's a modified idea - at preheat some hot liquid/near vapour fuel is under the jet. It vapourises but has slow velocity at exit of the generator. It doesn't draw in any more air than required to burn blue - weakly and just about. As things heat up the choked vapouriser it's further starved of tank pressure so only a whiff of vapour exits past the air collection tubes. Slow vapour and not enough air looks for something to burn - finds it lower down. -Again a later edit for a further thought!! This is exactly what my Coleman 285s do when I turn them off at the valve. The generator is full of unburnt fuel. At first not much happens except a small loss of brightness. As they are dual mantle they dim down to small blue flames - I always called them Owl's Eyes - thats exactly what they look like - can last a few minutes like that. Quite Beautiful. Eventually the perfect mixture 14:1 is reached (Aspen/Coleman fuel) - they suddenly flame down towards the mantle - then they go out - all is over. Fuel Starvation for sure!!
Went back to the shed last night to give this heater some more tries. I first did some heat&quench and tried again. No improvement. I then took another vapouriser (also a used one) and tried again with the same result. At first I got bigger flamelettes with large orange tips, the orange slowly disappeared. I was wondering if the burner itself can be dismantled for cleaning/inspection? I did not want to damage anything so thought I'd better ask first! Best regards, Wim
Sorry to hear that Wim. Having never seen a Bialaddin heater burner I can't help much. I always imagined them rather like a Tilley so maybe they come apart in the same way? I suppose the burner/tank outlet/valve is clear enough it will squirt a vertical stream of fuel when pressurised but cold. Next thing I might try is to heat the vapouriser with a blowtorch (wife's cooks blowtorch is good for this ) Check a good strong stream of vapour exits when it's hot. If all that OK must be the dome is full of spiders!
I had a closer look at the parts drawing in the reference section, looks like I am missing a part? It shows a No. F709 element support tube Spoiler I don't seem to have. But where exactly does it fit? It can only be under the burner assy, thus "lifting" it to a correct height. Of course, if it is not there, the burner might be to low on the vapouriser causing the problems I have. Anyone having a Bialladin heater, please chime in? Best regards, Wim
Took a minute to find the diagram. F709 looks vital. It forces the vapour up into the dome via the ceramic tube in the centre of burner. Without, it seems the burner ceramic must be sitting on top of preheat cup - the whole lot being too low as you suggest. Is the air inlet tube centred in the reflector hole as it should be? Is it gas tight up through the centre of burner all the way to the dome? Looks as if it is meant to be.
I'm a bit miffed Wim if you have no support tube, what's holding your ceramic tube and mantle/support plate to the burner ? I know these are tillers but the layout is the same How does these relate to what u have Wim ?
Hi Ray, I took another close look at the spare parts diagram, then the drawing of the "assembled" bowlfire (it also shows part numbers) and lastly, my bowlfire. I've come to the conclusion part 709 is a replacement part that screws into the burner body. Not very clear on the parts diagram. So, obviously I have all parts! Also, the burner body rests upon the vap tube, fixed distance so nothing to go wrong there. I'll have to try another vap tube from a proven working lantern! (Still, I'd like to know wether the burner can be dismantled for cleaning). Best regards, Wim
Probably not, but the vapouriser being steel and the burner brass, it's just possible for the shoulder inside the burner to wear slightly and alter the distance. It would have to be an old, very well-used burner, though...
Sounds very like a fuel feed problem to me. Take out the valve and have a look at the fuel feed tube inside the tank. Cracked solder near the top will allow air in and restrict fuel flow. Also check the feed tube is clear and not partially blocked or crimped. ::Neil::
Hi Ray, dismantled the bowlfire yesterday, checked all points mentioned and took the vap tube from a working lantern. All went well for a while, I even thought it was fixed! . After maybe 10 to 15 minutes the flame again started to crawl downwards! Extinguishing & restarting when still warm did not help, flames crawl down and then go out. I re fitted the vap in its "own" lantern, and there it worked fine for the next couple hours lighting my workbench (I only have a couple battery powered LED lights) together with a Tilley X246B. So, next thing I'll try is put the top of the lantern on the bowlfire and see if it burns OK. Then I'm certain it is the burner giving trouble. Maybe I'll try this tonight, will report back! All the best, Wim
My bowl fire does a similar thing. I've never had it extinguish but the flames always creep about half way down the mantle. I came to the conclusion that too much pressure can cause this as I've had the same on Tilley R1's, but only when I've continued pumping to get the pressure tit level.
Sounds that it gets in some unwanted air to a certain degree. It could be worth checking the fuel pickup tube inside the tank for some leaks, where air gets pressed in instead of fuel. When my pressure lanterns run out of fuel they show a similar behaviour. Flames begin to move away from the burner head downwards the mantle until they extinguish completely. The air leak would also cause a pressure loss faster than normal, so frequent pumping would be necessary as a side effect. At pumping it could happen that more fuel is provided for a while because of the fuel sloshing inside the tank.
Tried a few things today, first I took the top of my lantern, and put it on the heater's vap. As the burner sat a few millimeters lower than on the lantern, I fitted 3 small stainless washers in the burner tube. This combo ran for over an hour, happily brightening up my shed. I'll have to fit a new mantle though as the old one went bust . To much manipulating I guess . I then took the heater burner, and fitted one of the washers inside, this way also lifting the burner a couple mil's. As usual, all went well in the beginning, I even thought it was fixed so put the bowl fire on the floor to my side (it had been burning on the bench, to bl**dy hot for me!). After some time, you must have guessed it, flames were half way down the mesh, flames were under the mesh, burner head glowing dull red . Don't know about you people, but I think the burner is shot! Ah well, money down the drain . Will have to taste some of the whisky I got for Christmas to chear self up! (One is made in Normandy! I do like their Calvados, so trust this whisky will also be good ). Best regards, Wim
Flamelets burning halfway down the mantle is usually due to over-pressure. What happens if you release a little pressure from the tank when the problem arises...
Have look at the underside of the burner - the circle of small holes where the vaporised fuel/air mixture comes out. They should be circular and equally spaced. If the holes are touching or not round, the burner is trash. Terry
Hi David, I tried with less pressure and I've tried with more pressure, once the flame starts wandering, there is no way to restore it! Only thing to do is extinguish, let cool down completely, restart from zero. BTW, this "THOR BOYO" (whisky made in Normandy) is pretty good! All the best, Wim
Hi Terry, all looks fine, no enlarged/deformed holes! It is a mistery... . Maybe, one day I'll see the . All the best, Wim
Wim, does the burner have the original wire mesh mantle or a reproduction? I was wondering if the mesh is not original maybe it is too fine a weave. It could be acting as a screen causing the flame to burn outside the mantle instead of inside.
Hi James, no idea really, but it looks OK if I compare with photo's of other mantles. The mesh is approx. 1 square millimeter, it looks original or a very well made copy. The search continues! 8) All the best, Wim
Wim, have you dismantled the burner and given it a good cleaning? It should unscrew (although I don't think the air tube is removable). I'll try to get some photos when I have some free time!
As promised/threatened! Some of the threads may be seized so one needs to be careful as it's a mix of brass & steel. HTH
Wow!... Great detail! Hope you don't mind me asking a question(s) about the burner? It is quite different to the standard burner? Not just the Vent tube and mantle but also in the way it dismantles? Please excuse but I'm very new to all this, Regards,
Hi expat, I'll throw the burner in some fine (low temp gun)oil and paraffin mix. If I leave it in there long enough I have good hopes I can dismantle the burner. Worth a try! Thanks a lot for taking all the trouble! Best regards, Wim
Hi Pods, completely different! The burner is much larger than the lamp one and the lamp burner does not share the same internal structure. Wim, yeah, that should do it - I've been known to use Plus gas in the past too - the ether in it helps the oils penetrate. Don't forget to remove the ceramic tube first though (just in case you forget - not likely I know, but I haven't been able to find any replacements). If it makes you feel better, mine gives off a great heat (now its cleaned - there were "flakes" of carbon blocking it) although when I de-pressurise it it "backfires" out of the air tube!
Hmmm...heaps of food for thought there.. ...Love the Backfire!.. ..Do you know if there is any where to look for exploded views at all? Did do a brief search but sometimes quicker just to ask?.. (no pun intended)
Oooh - now you'll have Christer chaffing you about quoting the entire, immediately preceding post. There's no need to do this. When you're chatting to someone in a pub, do you immediately repeat all they've just said before adding your own piece to the conversation? Anyway, the backfire on shutting down is entirely normal and I'll explain why it happens if you want - but it's probably sufficient to say it usually indicates a burner in good working order...
