Have Hollow Wire Lamps Been Accepted By The Mainstream?

G'day all,

If I recall correctly from different things I've read on this forum that when this forum was being designed, Hollow Wire Lighting was discussed and it was decided that Hollow Wire lamps weren't considered pressure lamps or worthy of a place on this site.

Has the brains trust that made that decision some 6 years ago ever thought to reconsider the decision? If not, why is that? Would it be possible to explain the actual reasons behind the decision?

I'd also like to hear from members outside of the initial brains trust and get their thoughts: Is Hollow Wire Lighting, Pressure Lamp related?

 

Matty, I think they fall within the definition of pressure lamps. The fact that the fount is further away from the vapouriser/burner and connected by a pipe should not be relevant.

I like seeing and reading about these devices on this forum.

 

Of course they are pressure lamps.
And they are posted all over the place. Just take a look in the Lux-section where the HW-lamps are outnumbering the others.

 

Matty - I can only see conversations to the contrary to your assertion in CPL pre-launch days.

If you can link to the things you've read please as I'd be interested to know where this comes from.

I had a quick look at some of the hollow wire stuff in the reference gallery we already have on the site & you replied to one of the posts last year so I'm a bit baffled by question.

We also include gravity fed stuff.

We don't do wick lamps.

Nothing to reconsider.

BTW I added a link to you 'Hollow Wire' site last week

 

Christer,

I know hollow wire lamps are posted on the site. I have a number posted here myself.

That's not what I asked.

You saying of course they are pressure lamps is what I would say too.

I've just been looking for the topic where I read hollow wire weren't considered 'worthy' for the site when it was set up. I can't find it. I use 'worthy' for the lack of remembering exactly what was said.

I read the topic a long time ago and I can't remember exactly what what written but it did mention that hollow wire lamps were discussed and it was decided they weren't for this site.

 

Matty - someone may have said that but it doesn't mean they were right. If that decision HAD been made hollow wire stuff that has been posted would have been moved to the Lounge.

Are we at the point where we don't have to justify a decision we didn't make yet?

 

Ross,

It may have been one persons view of hollow wire lamps and what they said about the hollow wire being discussed and decided against as being considered true pressure lamps may have been false. I've been looking for the topic but can't find it.

My question is of no reflection on this site. What I was wondering was if what the person had written was true at the time if that sentiment had changed over the years.

You say you don't do wickies and of course you don't. I've seen wickies discussed on this site so I know it's not like the site has an iron fisted rule against anything being discussed nor am I saying hollow wire have been discriminated against.

The fact that you and Christer haven't brought up memories of hollow wires being discussed at the time this site was getting set up leads me to think perhaps the post I read was one man's opinion and what he said may well have been wrong.

Thanks for the link. I dunno if it's still true or not but I think it used to help your google ranking if you had links. I suspect content is more important these days. Or since google seem to own the web, if you advertise with them. That aint happening from this black duck.

 

Ross,

I think you are reading too much into my question, perhaps it's how I put it.

I don't think this site needs to justify anything.

I'll put it this way.

If, in the beginning, some collectors didn't consider hollow wire lighting true pressure related lighting, has that opinion now changed.

We crossed on our last posts.

 

Well, the wickies you have seen being discussed are in the Open Forum, so of course they are allowed. Any lamp can be discussed there.
Even blow lamps...

Hollow wire lamps are in the on-topic forums.

You might be confusing this question with the gravity lamps.
They were up to discussion at a later stage.

There is probably collectors who never considered HW lamps as true pressure lighting.
If they have changed opinion is hard for us to tell...

I think there are collectors who think it would have been best if this site only concentrated on lamps with integral pump and a tank of their own, and there are also collectors who think that we should let mantle lamps in.

 

All pre-launch discussions are still accessible to those you call the 'brains trust'. The only discussion I can find on the subject is to allow hollow-wire. Sorry - I didn't read your post as asking if this was the case but asking why. No biggie to me Matty - it is what it is & no case for CPL to answer.

Google ranking - I looked at your site. You need to register to see anything. That will go against you in google rankings. They don't like it. Their bots will be there but hitting dead ends.

 

Aye - CCS is blighted with the occasional post too. Even though Mrs Spiritburner likes them & I brought her a massive Sievert Vapouria No:16 home from Newark, I have no interest in making official allowance in the reference sections for them.

There was a few sites on the subject - have they all vanished now?

 

Ross, you know that you can use a blow lamp to cook dinner on, don't you?
And how are you going to burn the top of your cremé brulee when you're hiking if you don't bring a blow lamp!?

Serioulsy though. I think there are a couple of sites dedicated to blowlamps still around.
But not as many as there used to be, and I don't think there is any real forum for them. Atleast not international.

 

Mate, please, I didn't mean for it to come across in any shape or form that CPL did anything wrong.

I was wondering about the mindset of some collectors. Sure,if what was said is true, some of the collectors would have discussed hollow wire when building this site. Again, I have posted hollow wire on this forum without discrimination. CPL has nothing to answer for.

I used 'brains trust' as I gathered from the post I read that there must have been a collective group discussing how this site should be set up.

Thanks for the tips on guests. I'll change that.

 

I saw a brilliant bit of film when visiting Arne Aasgaard of the Norwegian Blowlamp Union roasting a pig with four huge floor-standing blowlamps!

 

I recently saw a blow lamp body with a lamp head on it in some paperwork or ad I have.

It looked like what our yank mates would call steampunk. It was a product from the factory though.

 

I wonder how it tasted...
A slight aroma of paraffin gently woven in, perhaps?

 

Part of the problem with HW stuff is I don't look for them and they are not listed in the PLC. When we set up the galleries here the lists of lamp models was pretty much straight from the PLC lists with some help from the other founder members so there were no HW models included and the galleries just reflect the major brands and models listed in the PLC. I make no appoligies for what I don't collect or for what the PLC does not list. The PLC generally only lists portable lamps and HW ain't portable. However the lamps can be quite interesting and are certainly collectible as true pressure lamps. As such any HW model can be inculded in a brand gallery but will not have a model number dedicated gallery. If enough of the same model appear then the brand list can be expanded to include it. The site is flexible enough to allow this if enough turn up.

I suspect my lack of interest was initially that English made HW is vanishingly rare so in 30 years of collecting they just never turned up. ::Neil::

 

Yes, it's hard to collect something you never see even harder to get interested in it.

I had thought that HW didn't catch on in the UK. I believe Tilley made some early stuff and I would guess Kitson was trying to flog HW off in the UK.

I don't think there is an example of Tilley HW to be found?

 

HW to me are absolutely related and among those are some of the nicest pressurelamps ever build.

I would say that CPL would be poor without those beauties and these lamps has also always been here fortunately.
I even think that CPL should take in the lamps as the ex. the Boler and Tito Landi, as they in princip also is true pressurelamps, despite the wick-transportation to the very slim "chamber" where these lamps build up pressure.

Claus C

 

Certainly HW should be included in the main galleries. I may not get all that excited but they are for sure true pressure lamps and absolutely belong here.

With LPG lamps or wick fed low pressure such as Tito Landi, I don't have a problem with them being included somewhere. Not my thing but if enough misguided people want to have a dedicated place for such excuses for lights then I dare say after negotiaton some accomodation can be arranged. After all this site is for lamp collectors and if there is demand then we should be prepared to evolve. ::Neil::

 

Matty's assertion was totally misplaced.

HW is included in the galleries but not in any specific place as far as I know. Tend to be in galleries with no sub-categories or 'other' I think. We also have some gravity alcohol lamps. We're still drawing the line at 'wicky crap'. Hell isn't cold enough yet.

 

Speaking as a "misguided person" who has several of these "excuses for lights" I hear there may be at least one appearing at Newark 2017. I've seen them running (not that easy and, frankly, nowt to write home about - Les Francais must have much bruising to their lower limbs ) but none of mine have in my ownership. It's a long-term project. Yeah, very long-term...

 

This is not just a site for lampcollectors Neil, it is a site for collectors of pressurelamps.
Tito Landi and others like, are pressurelamps just as gravitylamps, but Tito and other lamps alike, never got the acknowledgment from here (CPL) and I never understood why.
To please those people, I would salute such a appendix for low pressure lamps with respect.
Misguided - It doesnt have to have a pump to be a pressurelamp. A pump is just a convenient solution for the inventor when his imagination went dry Of course leaving more work for the user.

Claus C

 

Well yes I agree which is why despite not having any personal interest I said that if there is demand then perhaps the site should accomodate them.

When the site was set up it was heavily influenced by what a few of us collect and I record in the PLC. That was a small group and we concentrated on portable gasoline and kerosene pressure lamps. I provided lists of manufacturers and models to be included in dedicated galleries and these were discussed by the founders and then added to the site. In hindsight perhaps we should have included the low pressure stuff such as Gravity and self pressurising lamps but I don't think any of the founder members knew a great deal about them, I know I certainly didn't.

We have survived several years without this lack being a problem so I assumed the demand was not great. However there is certainly some interest so perhaps those of you who want to see such lamps in their own galleries might like to suggest what should be added and where. This is not something I feel qualified to influence so talk to Ross and the moderators. ::Neil::

 

I think we are quite OK as it is now.

This site is mainly a result of some discussions at CCS amongst Ross and us moderators back then about the need of a forum for pressure lamps due to the fact that so many who collected stoves also had lamps.
It came out as a good complement to CCS.

At the start some knowledgeable people, like Neil, was asked to join in to the discussions about the initial setup.
I think we got it all worked out fairly well.
The only thing that has been added from that first setup, is that we decided to also allow gravity lamps, so nothing was cast in stone.

Any lamps are welcome in the Open forum. Even wickies, so there's really no problems.
We just have a main focus.

 

It's correct to say the main focus of these forums is, and always was, liquid-fuelled pressure lamps working at a pressure of around 29 psi (2 Bar / atmospheres), achieved by a manually operated pump. I recall that it was quite a battle to include radiant heaters as well - see the way '& Heaters' appears as an after-thought in the title at the top of the page. Subsequently, further sub-categories (e.g. Other Tilley product) were added to allow those of us who collect generically to display our treasures.

But if I might be allowed to play the Devil's Avocado for a minute, I see two 'problems'. The first is inconsistency. How gravity lamps were allowed here but not other forms of lighting which similarly utilise natural forces e.g. capillary force, to generate pressure is beyond my comprehension. Don't get me wrong; I've no particular problem with gravity lamps; they just don't float my boat, that's all. But logically, if they're acceptable, then so should wickie, wick and mantle and all the other stuff be acceptable. Surely it should be a case of 'all in' or 'all out'.

The second problem I see is that it's all very well saying there's a place for everything in the Open Forum. The trouble is, anything posted there falls down the list, gets separated, diluted amongst the junk and ultimately, lost. Afficionados of, say, Tito Landi lamps have no place where the objects of their interest are easily accessible and in one place for the purposes of, say, comparison and research.

I've no answers here; all I'm saying is that this may be a worthwhile area for discussion. Personally, I wouldn't like to see this site become something like BBL was, where just about any form of lighting was acceptable. That is definitely a Pandora's Box which needs to remain shut, bolted, barred, locked and encased in a metre of reinforced concrete.

Just my two penn'orth, for what it's worth... 8)

 

All those definitions (2 bar) was unknown to me, but of course you had some thoughts before making this fine site.
Personally I agree with David here according to the BBL-thing, but I cant follow your thoughts about the pressure-limit. Why 2 bar
Wickie-crap is one thing, but pressurelamps is another and still TitoLandi, Boler etc needs preheating for building up pressure to start and take over pressurebuilding themself. Thats not wickie-crap despite the wick.
I also agree with David about how on earth the gravitylamps got here then - they should be in the same bin as the Titos - open forum, where all those beauties would disappear like tears in the rain over time.
The approval of gravity-lamps was why I started asking about this in the first place.
Davids short summary of the basic rules lighted up the darkness more than I have seen before about this subject

Claus C

 

No idea, Claus, but that's the pressure most (not all) of our lamps were designed to work at. Neil, any idea?

(1 atmosphere i.e. 1 bar = 1000 millibars = ~1000mm of mercury = ~14.7 pounds per square inch)

 

Personally - I'm happy for all lamps except wick lamps to go in the galleries. They seem to anyway - we have gravity lamps there. Do they need a specific category? Some brands just have an open category, some by model & 'others'. These lamps can fit in with the current structure. As with other lamps once there's enough of a certain model we can create a sub-category within the brand.

I thought we did this anyway.

 

err... 1 atm or 1033 mm H[Sub]2[/Sub]O or ~76 mm Hg or 1013 hPa

Besides this, I fully agree!
In fact I wouldn't call Tito Landi Wick Lamps. Some kind of common operating principle we're after is the pre-mixing burners with a blue Bunsen flame, using a mantle to produce light.