Have Hollow Wire Lamps Been Accepted By The Mainstream?

er, 760mm of mercury...

Don't know where I got 1000mm of mercury from - it was late or something (wasn't it?) - and, IIRC, ~32 feet of water...

 

...got it wrong, too:
1 atm = 1013 mbar = 1013 hPa = 10336 mm H[Sub]2[/Sub]O = 760 mm Hg = 14.7 PSI

Now that should be correct now...

 

Not really a pressure definition as such although you are right that most work at around 2bar. It was just that we mainly looked at lamps with pumps or inlet valves for external pumps and that implied a certain working pressure. Low pressure lamps such as gravity feed and heat generated pressure lamps were not originally considered. No real reason why they should not be included because they are lamps that have a pressure feed as opposed to the capiliary feed of Wicky crap. Just a question of demand which may drive any extension to the existing galleries. ::Neil::

 

I was referring to the very earliest discussions about this site when it was just Ross and me. First, we needed to have a working definition of what type of lamps we wanted the site to cater for and to be sure our intentions for it were in agreement. The definition I gave earlier was that.

Then we decided on who we would ask to be on board as the site developed from the first idea into reality. That was where you and the other founder members came in...

 

Without really changing much, then a suggestion could be a idea to change the "Gravitylamp" to "Lowpressure lamps" as Neil named them above. There is not many of these type of pressurelamps, less than all the Tilley 246's different specialeditions in all I think, 1:8 .

Claus C

 

As a new member it would seem to me that hollow wire lamps are, by any common sense definition, a type of pressure lamp and therefore a proper subject for discussion.

I would suggest that the limited interest is because they are so rare, and AFAIK have not been manufactured for many years.

Portable pressure lamps still have many everyday uses, including power failures, and outdoor activities.
Hollow wire lamps were in effect killed off by the advent of piped gas supplies or by electric light.
Who these days would light a building with hollow wire lamps ? The costs would far exceed electricity, locally generated in the absence of a grid connection.

This does of course beg the question, "What was the last regular use of hollow wire lighting" ?

IIRC there are still a few lighthouses that use very large pressure lamps, but are these true hollow wire lamps ? or simply large and non portable pressure lamps.

 

Yes - or if someone wanted to start a website in the same general format as CCS and CPL but dealing with the low pressure stuff, I daresay it wouldn't be too difficult to add another click-button thingie to the ones already at the top of the page. If I might be frivolous for a moment, label it AHAYWEH (Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here).

Seriously, though, I wouldn't be going there much but other folk quite likely would. We'd preserve the integrity and scope of this site whilst accommodating other collectors of a different persuasion...

 

Good thinking David, A seperate site run by wickie afficionos seems to me to be a logical step for collectors of wickie lamps.

 

There is plenty sites for wicky-crap and to me no need for new sites.

It is the low-pressure lamps that is in a limbo and needs a branch.
I find Neils suggestion nice.
There is no need to start up a new site just for them as they are pressurelamps and all there is needed is to change "Gravity" to "Gravity and Lowpressure". Is that too simpel

Claus C

 

What's the difference between gravity lamps and low-pressure lamps? As far as I can see, they're all low pressure (compared with a 29 psi / 2 Atm. lantern, that is...)

 

As we already have these sorts of lamps in our galleries do we need to do anything more? As I wrote earlier, Matty's assertion that they were not allowed here is wrong.

 

A gravitylamp is specific for a certain kind of LPL, that only works by gravity by having the fueltank above the burner, therefore one can not place other types of LPL's with ex. fueltank under the burner, under Gravity-lamps in the gallery without changing the headline in the gallery and therefore the rest of the LPL's is in a limbo.
I wrote this slowly David, if you dont understand it so fast

The thread took a turn to Lowpressure lamps and passed Hollowwire lamps here - my fault I guess


Claus C

 

Oh, I understood it alright, Claus - it's just that your reasoning is [strike]plain wrong[/strike] illogical. We were proposing to have a separate section for such lamps based on the fact they worked at low pressure compared to our usual lamps and lanterns - not whether their fuel tank was positioned above or below the burner.

If we applied your odd logic then we'd need another site altogether for donut-type lamps...

 

What we already have is such lamps posted under the manufacturer - all in the 'Other' category. If we get enough of a particular model we would create a sub-category for that model. If model info is difficult to find we could instead have a sub-category by type. I don't think this needs any re-alignment of objectives.

 

I obviously didn't make myself clear. When I wrote "such lamps" that was meant as an umbrella-term for all low pressure lamps including gravity, wick and mantle, wick (including those ornate parlour lamps and those ugly hurricane ones) and all the rest. We don't cater for all those here other than tolerating them in the Open Forum. Thus CPL doesn't represent a coherent resource for any of those types of lamp.

I've no axe to grind here - none of those lamps hold any attraction for me (except, perhaps, Tito Landi on account of their wackiness) and I wouldn't feel the need to visit a site where they were the main focus. I just thought it would be nice to be more inclusive (to an extent, anyway). If, as Claus asserts, there are already plenty of sites dedicated to such lamps i.e. all low pressure types, why do folk continually ask about them here? Beats me...

 

My response was partly to Claus. Am I wrong that we already happily include hollow wire & gravity & certain low pressure lamp in the galleries?

I'm getting confused I think.

 

You are correct Ross. This entire disuccion is about nothing.
Besides, the OP has left us again, so he will probably not add anything to this discussion he started...

We already have a section for gravity lamps - no problems there
Hollow wire lamps has never been an issue since they already are (and always have been) in the regular pressure forums, sorted under each maker.

Tito-Landi, Famos, HS etc are all very interesting, but out of our focus. Of course they are welcome in the open forum.

 

You hit the nail here
We only have room for hollow wire and gravity lamps here on the gallery - not low pressure lamps, LPL*s.

LPL's is the Tito Landi, the Boler, Kriegslicht and such. They only work by pressure, a mantle and preheating. They are as much pressurelamps as the gravitylamps and have no room here, but in the open forum, where it is difficult to find them for reference.

The talk about LPL's is polluted by the constant mentioning of wick-lamps. These LPL's is not wicklamps .
David there is a lot sites for wicklamps/hurricanstuff/aladdins so there is no odd logic, just dont mention wicklamps here again please as these lamps just pollutes, not just the air but also this subject .

Claus C

 

Well, that's your opinion, anyway. But perhaps you're missing the point...

So, tank above without a pump is OK here but tank below without a pump, isn't.

Yes, I see it all clearly now and it makes perfect sense. OK, excuse me, I must go and get wrapped up in my tutu, put a giant horn on my head, lather sparkles all over myself and prance around the kitchen pretending I'm a magical unicorn. Wibble, wibble...

 

David

Do you Morris dance as well?


Tony

 

Only at weekends...

 

A gravitylamp is a pressurelamp using gravity to create a low pressure. Therefore the tank is above the burner and the lamp is a lowpressurelamp.

A tank below the burner, can never be a gravity-lamp, but it sure can be a lowpressurelamp, even without a pump.

And these last mentioned lamps is not ,to place in the referencegallery, and I think that missing part of the gallery.

What you do in your sparetime has no interest to me, just keep it on, but spare me the details

 

I thought the likes of the Tito Landi were inluded in the Galleries. My mistake.

David, you do what you need to do!

 

Just for a good measure I will try to explain why the ex. Tito’s, Boler’s and Kriegslicht’s among few others (Comalumbra) is pressurelamps.

The way they are build is, as a lamp with a tank below the burner. The tank contains fuel and often fillingmaterial to stabilize the fuel and also constantly to “infect” with fuel further on.

The fuel is then lead from the tank by a cottonstuffed tube using the difusing/osmosic princip, as the cotton takes in the fuel and levels it up the very narrow “free” space, just below the mantle. The cotton never burns and is therefore not a wick, and the cotton just below the mantle is often provided with a mesh as a part of the narrow chamber.

This cotton is needed to have a certain density, as it also works as a sort of no-return-valve because the density wont let backlash happen, while the way forward for the fuel is easier than back through the fuelpipe to the tank.

The narrow chamber just below the bottom of the mantle is where the fuel expands through preheating, and through that expansion, the lamp becomes a pressurelamp using low pressure.

The exspanded fuel normally now goes through yet other tubes very near the mantle. When the preheating of the lamp is over, then the mantle takes over the preheating and the pressurebuilding of the fuel before it is let out through a fuelinjector/jet and burns of outside on the surface of the mantle.

The gravity lamps uses the same princip, but the difference here is the way the fuel is lead by the tank to the burner, by gravity, the rest is basicly the same, and these lamps also creates the same lowpressure.

Correct me if I am wrong here Christer.

Both types is pressurelamps.

I am not the big collector my self of these lamps, but I think both types should be recognized as pressurelamps , or none of them .

I had no idea, before David explained, that you(CPL) defined pressurelamps by a certain pressurelimit and not by the princip of if the lamps actually is pressurelamps, low or high.

I will now leave this subject alone – sorry for being a bit of topic Matty

Claus C

 

Thanks, Claus - so I had something correct in those twenty-odd years I spent teaching Physics including that gravity was a force which attracts things towards the centre of the Earth. I was beginning to doubt my own sanity for a moment there.

Har-bobble-ee-dop...

 

Surely you mean; "wooble!"

 

Evening entertainment for Newark next year? Perhaps Ross can organise a stage.

 

No, I was the cabaret act* this year - someone else can do it in 2017...

* £340 for two new pairs of glasses (luckily I needed them anyway) and my fingers are still strapped up...

 

Haha, what was wrong with the glasses with one lense?

 

Actually, nothing, Matt because I've little sight in my left eye so the lens that popped out was what they call a balance lens - there for cosmetic purposes only and not used for vision.

But people thought I was mad going around wearing glasses like that...