Possibly, but the production period for the Lister does overlap the X246B for a couple of years ('62 - '64). I was thinking more in terms of it being common, basic, not hugely exciting and something for the newbie to the hobby...
Different companies, but it feels like there is a connection, even if it is only that peculier engineering striving to keep producing made to last, hand finished, mass produced one-offs But also hours of fun pb
" a " workbench, not yours then? Might be the X246b of stationary engines, but you could probably pick one up for less than the asking price of the electric lamp at the beginning of this thread.
Not hard to guess as you are are of the Nordic race, but i'm presuming it is made in Sweden? Could we possibly see some photos and some history if known please? pb
Ah, yes. You are aware of hot-bulb engines/semi-diesels became a nordic speciality! And yes, all my semi-diesels (only three) are Swedish. Two are of the brand Seffle, which was a major manufacturer back then. Mostly for boats and ships. Many of the Seffles were actually placed in your narrow boats, even if another Swedish brand- Bolinder - probably were more common for that application. I have one Seffle in my boat. The stationary hot-bulb engine is a Beijer, perhaps the largest manufactuer for engines used on e.g. farms and saw mills, etc. The Beijer is not old. I think mid to late 30's. I prefer these later that don't have a hit and miss regulator. Hot-bulbs shall go with a constant, regular thumping sound. Best is to see it in action, but the best I can do is to direct you to this YouTube-clip I made some years ago. Here's a poor image of it: I agreed above with you that there is a connection between these two hobbies (lamps, stoves, blow lamps vs. engines), and below is an illustration of that. The engine manufacturers cooperated with e.g. Primus, so the stands for the heater was often made to fit a particular blow lamp. In the case with this Beijer, they let the cast iron exhaust pipe act as rest for the lamp by letting the cast also produce a good stand made specifically for the Primus 615. As you can see, it fit well, the hight of the burner is correct, but also the fact that it exactly enter the hole in the cover over the hot-bulb. And of course! There's a little flat shelf to support the pump well. I like any old engine. Listers are nice, and pretty common here too. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I shouldn't bump in to one or two tomorrow when there's a little local rally here on my island.
Oh, yes! Good on you Ray! You're the first who has reacted. It took some ten years, so unfortunately the award is gone. I often use that phrase about the island where I live. Actually I'm just deliberately quoting, sometimes paraphrasing, the slightly mad Irishman in Braveheart, if anyone remember him. -Wallace ask: "Your island...?" -The Irish warrior reply: "Yes! It's MY island!" Same with me.
Great pics and detailing Mr. C, they do have a distinctive sound which I seem to remember was more of a 'Burble' than a thump? also looks like a bracket for the propane torch perhaps for when things get colder? Was this engine used on a farm? Do you know where it came from at all? Also your tractor looks quite a handy bit of kit? regards, pb
Ah now pods, Christer has quite a few toys I remember the clip Christer, he was quite mad as I recall Then again, who isn't to some degree
Exactly! Aren't we all a bit mad... In that particular scene, I actually think the word later, or possibly before, was 'Insane (Irish)', in a- from that context- good way. Still applies to us and our odd hobbies. I do have a few bit of toys hid under the famous bushel, just as I think you miraculosluy has managed to do... We all have our interests that reach beyond, or connect, to this lamp/stove/blow lamp -thingy. A burble...!? Never heard that one. Did you listen to my engine in the clip above? I'd more characterize it as a regular thumping sound... That engine is ran at a pretty high rev, but it wouldn't effect the actual sound. The burble you refer to is more likely to be found in later marine applications, and then not with hot bulb engines. Hot bulbs are always with 'dry' exhaust. The burble is more to be found when you mix the cooling water with the exhaust. As on the normal marine engine. I think you might be thinking of an old one-cylindre marine diesel with 'wet' exhaust. They make a distinct - still nice!- burble. I have a couple of those too. And even an old petrol fueled classic from the fourties - an Albin O1. That one really make a burble when the one cylinder exhaust mix with the cooling water! It's a classical sound. Atleast here. Well spotted! I don't think for when things got colder. Just to make things easier. I have never used anything but the blow lamp myself on this one, but I too assume that reality eventually creeped in and the good people who used this engine for their living added a much more conveniant propane torch. After all, this engine was a thing made to ease up peoples life, not the opposite, and a quick and reliable start was a great improvement. It's the same reason why I (normally) use a propane torch on my boat engine. I just want a quickish start so I can get on with the normal business. I have kept the additional propane bracket on this stationary engine just for the history of it, but to me it's redundant since- in opposite of my boat, which actually is used as a regular driver - I always use a blow lamp. Because it's fun, and I have the time to wait and also how it was meant originally. Lighting the torch itself is a bit of the show. I do that with the boat too when people are crowding, and that's actually not unusual when they realise it's powered with a hot-bulb engine that someone actually use in real life, and not just for show.
It may have been a the Bolinder in a narrow boat called 'Spey' that had coloured my deaf ear as that is a very 'burbley' thing indeed (also on youtube)... it may have the hit an miss injector you mentioned which may help to create the hiccup-y burble, Anyway you are very fortunate to have 3 of the lovely things and great to listen to especially under load They were first described over here as Heavy Oil Engines, i think to distinguish from the lighter paraffin and TVO type of engine already about? What do you use in yours Christer? pb
Diesel. Good old diesel. That's the easiest and best. It works well on old crude oil engines like these. Practically any oil will work as long as you adjust the timing accordingly. The earliest hot-bulb engines ran on paraffin (not exactly the same paraffin we use in our lamps).
The larger B&W shipmotors will actually run on butter or tar if the preheating of the fuel is good enough. Many shipmotors have a "economizer" installed in the chimney, a coiled fueltube, where the exhaust from the chimney, warms up the fuel before it goes back in to the engine. Allmost just like our beloved pressurelamps do. The economizer just wasnt allowed to take more energy than the exhaust-temperature still was app. 79 Celsius or else liquid sulferic-acid would be produced, and run down the chimney - but thats another story. Claus C
I may have a few machines that might loosely resemble a machine shop, but there a far cry from playing with Traction Engines, boats, motorcycles, tractors, stationery engines, Cadillacs !! It seems after all this fun, you can still find time to play with a Drone Am I jealous of course
Always worth another watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39drBmwxL8 A little bit better behaved is KANGAROO's 15hp Bolinder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtoCcgBJNfg Rudolph Diesel is credited with the invention of the 'Diesel' engine, though in truth he invented the high pressure injector, and the early engines were designed to run on peanut oil. Herbert Akroyd Stuart patented the compression ignition engine designed to run on paraffin just a year or so earlier than Diesel, but discontinued further production in 1893. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine
Hi Derek Thanks for those links. The second link was very nice and I could see myself aboard those Joshers. But the first link I found amazing! I realise that I know nothing about this type of engine. To me it looked so complicated to get it started and keep it running. I must do some research.
From Electrocuted X246B to big oil engines via blowlamps. Only available here. It's the open forum after all. Hope Gneiss likes engines - he probably does. Been so quiet he must be electrocuting X246B's. I'd like to smelt mine....'kin thing.
Well I put on a pair of nitrile medical examination gloves earlier and had a look at mine (x246b that is ). Although the exterior apparence isn't great, it's actually not seen much use. The burner is like new, just a bit sooty and the vapouriser looks newish. I might clean it up and give it a new lease of life after all.
Hi Trevor, The Swedish Bolinder engines were amongst some of the first semi-diesels that got put into narrow boats around the early 1920's, sometimes replacing steam plant, but also as new built 'motor' boats. They were two stroke engines, breathing air in through clack valves in the crankcase and could run in either direction. Some were fitted with reversing gearboxes, but many were just had a clutch to engage drive to the prop., and reversing was done by skilful use of the reversing injector at low rpm so as to 'reverse' the direction of the engine. If the engine 'went out' (stalled) in the process, lock gates could be rammed, and the air turn blue! Lots of old Dutch barges were fitted with similar, Brons, Kromhout and Industrie being just three manufacturers. Gardner and Petter made semi-diesels too, and as Christers says, some were fitted with Seffles. The narrow boat SWAN still has her original single cylinder semi-diesel Gardner installed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UKPnl_1sZk Like Christer's engine, the Gardner didn't have the hit and miss type fuel pump, but gave a regular firing beat every two strokes of the piston. http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Marine/bolinder.htm An early Lanz Bulldog tractor being started with the steering wheel (and help from some string!) - another hot-bulb two stroke. They were simple engines, and had long lifespans, able to run on the cheapest of fuels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr_b6mTnHEo
Derek, thank you very much for taking the time to explain some aspects of these early semi-diesels. I have been doing some reading of the subject in the last couple of days and also watching Youtube videos on the same subject. The link you provided to the starting of a Lanz Bulldog Tractor is fascinating. There is great dual use of the steering wheel!
No problem Trevor - just a bit of an anorak when it comes to engines! This one ran out of control and led to some fun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG1MnXkHhlM This how it should run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0poJpCD18 And irresistibly they can add a new dimension to a rhythm section: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmRypjAUcU - can't understand a word they're singing though!!
