I have just joined so this is my first post here. I was lucky enough to be given 8 Tilley X246B and one X246 lamp. I have worked my way through all of the X246B lamps and all now work well although some are noticeably dimmer than other for no apparent reason. However, on one of these have a rather annoying problem in that on this particular lamp when extinguishing with the control knob the flame is extinguished but seems to make a blow back sound until the pressure is released via the pump. I rebuilt this with all new seals and on this particular one I fitted a new Tilley supplied vapouriser which I bought directly. I have so far checked for blockage in the feed pipe in the tank with a wire, changed the seals again and swapped over the control cock, to no avail - could the vapouriser be faulty? Can feel the needle point through the top of unit so all would appear to be well. Hopefully someone can offer some more suggestions. Secondly, I am currently rebuilding the X246. Was wondering what vintage it may be. There are no dates on the tank anywhere and has the straight legged screw on feet. Also was the found meant to be gold painted or polished brass, and is/was the cage meant to be silver colour or gold colour? Thank you very much.
I can't say that I've tried any new, new Tilley vapourisers but the quality seems to be variable - to say the least. Tilley no longer have any manufacturing capability of their own so now out-source all of their parts from the Far East; they don't seem to have specified highly enough and quality control is poor. We've had reports of vapourisers with no hole, two holes, oval holes and off-centre holes. Make of that what you will. Let's have a picture or three of the X246 and we'll be able to help with dating etc...
@Nick Thurgood Welcome to the forum, as David says, a picture paints a thousand words. Regards Jeremy
@Nick Thurgood 1. Clean the vapouriser on the X246 and put it on your X246B to see whether that makes a difference. It sounds like you're getting underburn, which means that fuel is escaping into the burner after shutdown. 2. Look in the Reference Gallery to see the different styles of X246. If you put a photo here someone is sure to put a date (range) on it. Cheers Tony
Welcome aboard! The quality of the control cocks which are fitted to the X-246-B lanterns varies, so try fitting one which you know works well to see if that improves the performance. The older Tilley products are of much better quality.
Simple answer is not to shut off the lantern with the control cock. The engineering design and quality is not always great on these later products. Also Bialaddin/Vapalux instructions advise against using the pricker as a shut off. Same type of burner system and I suspect not using the pricker may help prolong the life of the vaporiser. If that applies to Bialaddin then it is probably good practice to do the same with a Tilley. ::Neil::
Ah, well, as far as I know the anatomy around the shoulder-end of the pricker and underside of the jet of these two makes is different. The Tilley is designed to seal there whereas, in theory at least, the Bialaddin/Vapalux isn't (although, in practice, it does). There was litigation between the two companies because Tilley had patented this and W&B had copied it. I don't think W&B ever actually changed the design but added the bit in the instructions regarding not using the pricker as a shut-off. My suspicion is that this was to appease Tilley. It's in Ian Ashton's book...
Jeremy, Thank you for your welcome - I will go and buy a battery for my camera and take a few shots later on. Nick
Good luck, Stoves get underburn (below the burner). In Tilley lamps I will suggest it is "overburn" because it goes on up top in the mixing dome. That happens if you shut down by only releasing pressure from the tank - for 5-10 seconds or so. If it happens when using the control cock to shut down it is because the needle shoulder isn't sealing at the top of the vapouriser. It will carry on until the remaining fuel in the vap tube has gone - assuming the shut off valve below the control cock actually works. I don't much mind if the vapouriser top seal doesn't work. If it is too tight the upward pressure of the rod shoulder only enlarges the jet and you get a scrap vapouriser. When the vap tube is hot and soft, if the upward force of the rod causes deformation of the jet orifice, you have permanent rich mixture problems - they are very common. The cure? Peening or else a new vapouriser. The dimensions of the rubber seal at the bottom of the vapouriser affect this. I like to choose one that allows the pricker end to poke out of the jet but not enough that the pricker rod can seal at the top end. This is one thing when the whole assembly is stone cold and very different when it is all hot during working. Far better to adjust the washer thickness so that the pricker only does that and extinguish it by relieving tank pressure assisted by raising the pricker, if the overburn has continued for too long. Live long and prosper for your 606s.
@JonD I know we’ve had this “underburn”/“overburn” discussion before. It’s called underburn in stoves. It occurs in the mixing area (equivalent to a mixing chamber) under the outer cap of the flame spreader. One way of looking at it is this: If your lantern mantle was fitted vertically, or you turned your lantern upside down, you would have the same situation as in stoves. Another way of looking at it is this: In normal operation the flame is outside the burner. With underburn it is not burning outside the burner, it is burning under the mixing chamber. Coining a new term (“overburn”) to cover the same phenomenon because the two items, stoves and lanterns, have differing ‘geography’, is redundant (and unhelpful) in my view. Cheers Tony
Hi Tony Now I am completely and utterly confused! To rectify the issue I have already changed the fuel tap to no avail. Plus once again changed all seals for new. I have ‘recommissioned’ eight other lamps which all work fine (apart from varying degrees of light intensity). Apart from this one. As in original post the vaporiser was actually new and bought from Tilley (although I am led to believe that the quality of these now is varying). I have several spare vaporisers (used) so shall have a session with carburettor cleaner and heat quenching to try and clear these and then have another go. Having worked in motor industry for all my working life I love to try and make things work correctly. ‘Fettling’ I suppose! Old mowers, fishing reels, etc But this particular lamp is really beginning to annoy me! We will get there in the end I am sure. Nick
@Nick Thurgood Nick My post above was a comment to @JonD. 1. It sounds like your lantern is continuing to burn inside the mixing chamber after you shut the control cock off (as @JonD has described above). This means that fuel is escaping through the vapouriser and continuing to burn inside the mixing chamber (underburn), rather than outside where the mantle is. 2. There are two fuel flow shut-offs for Tilleys. The primary one is the control cock. The secondary one is the tip of the Tilley pricker. 3. I would first test your control cock. Without the vapouriser, does fuel flow through the control cock when it’s shut off? 4. As for poor light output, are all the components of your burner snug tight and free of spiders etc. If this is the case, then poor light output is probably a problem with your vapouriser. 5. The X246B can be finicky by all accounts, and many have written here about their troubles here. 6. If I were trying to sort this problem I would be trying different vapourisers and burners to see whether the performance changes. Good luck. My apologies for confusing you. Cheers Tony
Hi again, Here are some photos of the X246. I still have quite a lot of work to do on this lantern. To date I have sourced a replacement hood and replaced the pump with a brass one - the one with the light was alloy type) so I hope this is correct for this lantern I should like to know:- 1) whether the fount on the model should be sprayed gold or should it be polished brass? 2) The cage seems that it was originally finished in a silver colour - is this correct? 3) Approximately what year would this be from? There is no date code anywhere, just 'Made in England' on the base. 4) Would the lantern had a transfer on the base? Thank you in advance for your help. Nick
@Nick Thurgood That is a very nice 1950s (post mid 50s) X246. It should restore well. The tank would have been polished speculum (like nickel or chrome). Painted if the plating had failed. Cage silver. Most likely with transfer on base if not marked X246 elsewhere. Cheers Tony
@Tony Press - all in fun. And we also had fun about your up is my down, water goes the wrong way down the plug etc. I'm not giving up on the fact that in pressure lamps (unless mantle sits above burner - not in most designs) it is overburn. Anyway your description of what is going on is perfectly right, the flame is burning inside the burner not outside as intended. This is bad for everything whether a stove or a lamp since eventually the burner parts melt - stop it quick.
Tony, Thanks for this - trying to get a burner for this one now, bought two off eBay but in all cases the burner body is deformed! But Ill bet one thing, that beer goes down the same way - vertically that is. Just going to hoist a couple, been 35 deg in garden today still 29 just now. I've sorted that X246B out I hope after changing everything two or three times just cleaned out an old vaporiser and all seems well. Fingers crossed. Ill be on the phone to Tilley in the morning to try and get a replacement vapouriser. Nick
@Nick Thurgood Enjoy the beer(s)! It been 0C here at morning a few times this week, maxing to around 13C. It makes the shed cold, so it’s always well lighted (4 lanterns) when I’m working out there at this time of year. @JonD I’m sure neither you nor I will take our bat and ball and go home over this. Cheers Tony
Call it what you will, it's usually caused by an insufficient pressure gradient between the tank and the burner. Adequate pressure causes the fuel air mixture to move (and keep moving) in the right direction and the flames will be outside the burner. Insufficient pressure allows the flame to 'burn back' into the burner and thus the problem. Incidentally, irrespective of which hemisphere you're in, beer flows quite easily uphill when you're inverted due to peristalsis in the oesophagus...
@Rosims I’ve been using new stock Tilley vapourisers (generators) without any issues (maybe I got a good batch). But a few weeks ago I was helping out a fellow Tasmanian with a Tilley X246 and the new Tilley vapouriser he had fitted was “blind” (it had no jet). New old stock is available on eBay from time to time. I also clean the carbon out of old Tilley vapourisers and many are still fine. You could also buy the Korean-made vapouriser (eBay) for Tilley X246: expensive but with replaceable nipple and cleaning pricker. Cheers Tony
Thanks Tony. I was just courteous. I just received a Tilley brand 606 and shining a light into it, it has 3 or holes. Really cheap looking for has expensive they are. And the pricker is 2 peices soldered together and not even straight. I do not see any way it will hit the orifice.
@Rosims The Tilley vapouriser has a guide near the top to locate the pricker. I test them before fitting by placing the pricker, set in the vapouriser, on a hard surface, and then pulling the vapouriser down to see the pricker emerge slightly from the jet. Even old pricker wires were often quite bent, so the guide does work well. Cheers Tony
I think they are meant to bend. Unless you adjust everything so that the pricker only just exits the jet (and that is affected by several things) then the vapouriser shoulder contacts the jet and puts pressure on it. That was a deliberate shut-off feature but I don't like it. One of mine punched through before I found out better. A bend allows some of the upward force to be relieved by the wire bending further sideways. If perfectly straight it just transmits all the force straight up. Now I like to install them so that the shut off feature doesn't work. Relieving tank pressure and closing the cock are good enough for shut off and preventing leakage.
