Want Viton rubber seals for 250CP petromax clone (Aida express)

Who is the best place to go for viton rubber seals for a petromax lantern?

Ive got a 250CP Aida express lantern which has a bad NRV and not only sticks and hard to pressurise, but also leaks, pushing the pump out.

Im also unsure how to remove the NRV without damaging it as i know these things are tight.
From what I have been reading from others, alot of people are not happy with the quality of the seals from britelyt, and their kits do not have viton rubber on every part.

Would like to support fettlebox, but i dont see any petromax seal kits available.
I really should service the whole lantern with viton seals if possible.

Thanks for any advice.

 

If the fettlebox has none, try Basecamp UK(at the moment)sarc,, they have a large inventory,but be warned can get busy with a bit of toing and throwing. ( if that's is even a saying)

 

Yeah I thought of trying them, i think i have to email them. No harm in asking.

Im surprised fettlebox has none yet, i was assuming petromax lanterns are more widely used than tilleys?

 

Best thing us to buy a small sheet and a set of punches. Then you can make whatever you want

 

If i knew what size the NRV seal is, it would be helpful, not sure if you can get all punches the right sizes or not.

 

Hello @nzoomed ,
When you get the nrv out you can measure the diam.
Punches are for sale at any diameter.

 

OK, hopefully i can get it out, because its tight.
Is there any method to get these things out without damaging it?
I think this one uses a flat head screwdriver from what i can see, unlike a primus stove with a special tool.
And what about all the other seals? I think these use o-rings, but have no idea on the correct sizes.
I often find alot of these seals break down into pieces when stripping down a lantern.

 

Just heard back from basecamp, they tell me that the nitrile rubber seals are perfectly fine and that they are the genuine parts from petromax. Was told that with kerosene they should stand up fine and no need for viton rubber.
Ironically ive seen people complaining that the stuff from petromax is not that great quality, and also ive found nitrile rubber seals do not stand up well to the kerosene on my tilley lanterns one bit.

 

@nzoomed ,
Adia Express?
Are you sure it is not Aida Express?
By the way, nitrile or buna-n is ok for kerosene unless the rubber you get happened to be neoprene, which is not fuel-resistant.

 

Sorry aida express, have been doing typos.
Anyway, the washers i had been using from tilley and another seller who claims they were punched out of nitrile were cracking in no time. Perhaps they were neoprene?

IDK, but i was put off using them anyway.

 

How old were the washers you got from Tilley? It may well be that they were made years ago and/or not stored under ideal conditions. Nitrile should last years but there are two caveats. The quality of nitrile can be variable so the adage 'if you buy cheap, you buy twice' may apply. The other thing is that nitrile is affected by light so the same age/storage thing will apply.

I bought sheets of nitrile around 10 years ago from a reputable seller and have stored it in the dark ever since. I've had no problems with it...

 

These were brand new ones I bought from them direct. The second lot i bought were from someone else who was making his from nitrile rubber, thinking i was going to get something better, but they were actually worse.

I suspect it was just bad quality rubber.
Either way, when I saw people talking about Viton, i was assuming everyone was having the same issues as myself.

 

To check the suitability of these seals, immerse them in kerosene for a few days. If they swell or harden, they're not good for the purpose here. You'll never know if those you're getting are really nitrile(buna-n) or something else unless they're from a reputable manufacturer that comes together with a material specification sheet.
Before we had Viton, FKM or any such fluoro-polymeric materials, we used nitrile rubber(buna-n), lead and cork for the seals and pips.
Of course, Viton would be more heat and fuel-resistant than nitrile but they're also far more expensive.

 

Back to step one: remove the valve.
First make a picture and post it here, so we know what we deal with.

 

Good point, Im suspecting the rubber i used was from a poor quality source.
I know on tilleys that the seal that gives the most trouble is the one where the generator tube screws into the control cock. It gets very hot on the generator tube so the seal breaks down pretty quick.

Will try to get it out soon, from memory i tried some time back and gave up, did not want to damage it.
I would have thought that a few here would know what a petromax NRV seal looked like, fromwhat ive seen in photos of the spares its just a small plug of rubber out of a sheet roughly 3mm thick.
Found this photo here too:
https://sklcolorado.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/aida-check-valve.jpg
If anyone has suggestions on how to remove it, let me know. This one uses a flat head screwdriver.

 

Was also going to ask if these lanterns typically use o-rings somewhere?
I see some kits have them, but for the 250CP lanterns, they dont have any.
Are there any differences between the Aida express lanterns and the petromax as far as seals go?
Is it just the 500CP models that had extra seals?

 

Removal tool: Just a large flat head screwdriver that would snugly fit the slot of the nrv. Make sure the nrv and surroundings are already pre-soaked in some penetrating oils to ease the removal a little.
These lanterns don't use o-rings. They use a flat ring washer made of lead. These can be substituted with similarly shaped or sized Viton washers.
The Aida Express 1250, etc is not a Petromax clone. If I'm not wrong, the Aida could well be the origin of Petromax-styled lanterns.
Now these Aida Express look almost exactly like the Petromax because they are all ( in later years after WWII) made by the same manufacturer in Altena, Germany.
So for the seals, they're the same.

 

Typically, the only rubber seals on Aida, Petromax, Optimus type lanterns and their clones are the seals in the filler cap and the pip in the NRV. All other seals (washers) are lead. These pips from the Fettlebox are perfect: NRV 4.5mm Pip - VITON. Pack of 5
You may also need: Non-return Valve Washer. Lead. Pack of 3
and one of these:
Petromax-type Filler Cap Washer Cap Washer.


To reduce the risk of damaging the slot in the head of the NRV, you need a tool something like this :




You can make one from either rod or a bolt of suitable diameter and length. It needs to be a "comfortable" fit in the pump tube so that it doesn't wobble about. Even with a bolt, it's best if you put a T bar on it to make it easier to push down whilst turning. Use a hacksaw and file to make the blade at the business end, the blade needs to be 1.5 mm thick 2 to 3mm deep.

Henry.

 

Removing these can be tricky.
A screwdriver works but can also destroy the thing. The massive tool @henry shows fit however perfect in the tube and works the best. You shloud not have the sharp edge of the screwdriver.

Sometimes people have used a lead washer as a seal, they shape shift and oxide on top, so getting them out is a pain in the hands.
You can try to fasten it slighty more and then turn it loose.
Use a lot of penetrating oil.
Don't overlook the craftmenship.
Take some time and tell us if it is a AIDA 1250.
If you can turn it loose but can't get it out, bend a little hook on the end of a metal wire. Hook it behind the valve head and pull it out.
You can also try to push it out from inside via the fill opening but do not mangle the thread there.
if this all doesn't work, make a coffee
heat up de blowtorch and desolder the tube.....

 

Good advices regards the NRV tool. I will have a go at making one.
Also looking at getting a set of punches, would be nice to have a set of washer punches which can punch the centre out at the same time, but they only some in 1mm increments and are expensive.
There are much cheaper options on ebay, but its hard to punch the centre perfectly.
Also not sure what thickness rubber sheet i need for most seals, im guessing 3mm and 2mm?
Am going to order these parts from fettlebox anyway.

Pretty sure its a 1250, will check when im back.
I need to know how many seals i need to get for these.
Any ideas what the O-rings are used for?
I dont see all kits have these so am a bit confused if i need them or not.
Washer Kit W/2orings for all sizes lanterns-Part#WK2


I tried ages ago with a screwdriver and had no luck and did not want to damage it, will spray some WD40 or CRC inside and see if that helps. Should be able to fashion up some sort of tool like was suggested.

 

This is what I use to unscrew the nrv from a Petromax. But you'll really need to make sure you hold it steadily and the screwdriver tip should sit snugly and squarely in the middle of the nrv's slot.
A square screwdriver stem where you could clamp with a small adjustable wrench. Tap the wrench's handle a bit in anticlockwise direction. Do not apply too much force or you'll lose control and damage the slot. Press the screwdriver against the nrv slot, making sure there's no tilting and the tip squarely sitting in the slot while exerting an anticlockwise force to unscrew. Use both hands. One on the screwdriver, the other on the wrench.
This works for me so far.

 

I will give that idea a go, I will need someone to hold the lantern firm on the bench while i turn it.

Anyway, does anyone know what typically should be replaced on one of these lanterns?
Im seeing seal kits with o-rings and some without. So have no idea if they are used on all models, nor where they go in the lantern.
All i see is part numbers but no exploded diagram. These are a very complex lantern compared to a tilley!

 

@nzoomed
Attached some files here. Maybe they'll provide some understanding before getting on to your lantern:

Also, the following link could provide some light for the Aida:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjANegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3DEJgAiXTtvaJXpQ5fSPLc

Some of the earlier threads on our site would provide some answers too. The Petromax 827 would be the closest lantern that depicts an Aida Express 1250.

 

Thats great thanks.
There was another guide i found too but it had no photos.
From what i gather, the petromax lantern was licensed to other companies such as Aida etc to make?
I believe there are a few minor differences between lanterns, but there is not as many seals as I think it needs from what i gather, i think only the 500CP models need the extra seals, but I could be wrong.
It looks like the O-ring seals go on the control valve to me, but wont know until i get this thing stripped down, have ordered some seals from fettlebox anyway, these may be all i need possibly.

 

If you go the following site, you'll be able to see what the parts look like in pictures(the Aida Express should have the same fitting parts as the Petromax HK250...HK500, except jet and pricker needle):
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2ahW9G0P-8RjMIl7GLqnOd

There are no O-rings in the Petromax or Aida. You could use o-rings for the filler cap seal if you want anyway.

 

@nzoomed ,
Do you posting some photos of your lantern as what it is now?

 

Yes was planning to do so soon.
Am going to strip the whole thing down and give it a good clean etc.

Might send the hood into the electroplaters too.

 

here are some photos. Its a 1250.

 

Looks complete. The mantle's still on!
Drench every surface with penetrating oil and leave it aside for at least a couple of days until you're ready to strip it down. That'll help ease the parts removal a bit.
Take all the time you need and do not be in any hurry.
I'll bet that lantern's made in the 1950s.

 

An oldie but a goody !