Coleman Quick-Lite 427 Xmas fettle...soon arriving from the US

If you are going to try an extractor, then heat will help as it will start to break down the rust that has formed on the threads. The heat expands things and makes it possible for parts to move more easily

@Tony Press will know more about how much heat to use and how long to heat and whether things unscrew from tanks etc

I thought you might have had access to a mig as the extended studding/screw job on your nice wick lamp had what looked like nuts with a line of weld down them?

It may sound like overkill but it's one of the best ways for extracting broken studs.

 

Ha thanks,

the line of ‘weld’ on the 4 nuts in that photo, was infact solder...! More than strong enough for that application it seems. This one requires a bit more thought and application...

for a start I haven’t got the correct diameter extractor and will have to order one from Amazon or the like. It would greatly help if that brass fuel valve assembly came off the tank without ‘Screaming’. I don’t need another breakage there!

 

Success with the fuel valve. It wouldn’t yield with a spanner, but after careful heating and repeated application of penetrating oil, it came off by gently tapping on the side arm with a tiny hammer. The pump tube head was stuck as well. Heating and oil did the trick.

There’s a lot of gunk down that tube, possibly the remnants of the leather. How do I remove the NVR valve at the bottom? (Assuming there’s is one)...

 

Hi @Tony Press , I see the lantern example you showed Alex has a Coleman factory Repurposed (restamped Slant 220) Frame.
These are normally found on several 1929 models in all months including some Sunshine Safety lanterns. Note that these Slant frames all have no half moon cut out for air pump or fuel funnel.
Coleman obviously already knew and planned the Slant would go and be replaced by the 220B model in 1930 so these frames were being disbursed.










Larry

 

Well spotted, Larry. I’ll send you a couple of photos. It is down the fettling queue, so it’ll be a while before it’s put up here in the Gallery.

Cheers

Tony

@coleman54

 

@Alex74

You need a special tool to remove a Coleman “check valve” (NRV). I’ve only ever needed to remove one. The best way forward is to:

1. Clean the pump tube fee of gunk with carburettor cleaner.

2. Half fill the pump tube with acetone and leave it soak overnight.

3. While the acetone is still in there, get a strong rod about 1mm diameter (no sharp edges) and poke it down the check valve to loosen the ball in the valve.

4. Shake the tank around to see if the ball is loose. Hopefully you will have freed it and it’s not pitted with rust. Empty acetone.

5. Put some penetrating oil down the pump to soak the ball in the check valve. Empty oil.

6. Test check valve under pressure.

Fingers crossed you won’t need to take out the check valve.


Cheers

Tony

 

Normally yes but not with this type of pump. The check valve ball bearing is behind the small hex headed brass screw at the bottom end of the pump tube.



@Alex74 For cleaning, I recommend you follow @Tony Press 's advice.

If surgery is required, forget about adjustable wrenches, the pump is tight and it's easy to round off the corners of the hex fitting so use a correct size spanner - 1" A.F. Similarly with the brass screw which being so small, is easily sheared off.

 

Tony, Henry,

brilliant, thank you. I shall proceed as Tony suggests then, while waiting for the extractor set and replacement parts ( I have now ordered a R55 generator, a pump leather, fuel cap seal, and other bits) from Mike at Coleman Old Parts.

Whilst doing that, I’ll also try and restore the mica globe.... it’s been marinading in vinegar for a few hours now. The lighting door was totally seized, so hopefully the vinger has loosened it. And thanks Henry for advise on fuel. I’ll look for the eBay one you mention.

 

Dishwashers are very good for cleaning mica shades but this is not always an option.

If you have a rotary tool (Dremmel, Ryobi etc.) you can use an almost worn out wire wheel to get a real shine on the tinwork. Short bristles greatly reduce the risk of scratching the mica but you'll still need a steady hand and patience. If you take out the rivets and open the mica - it doesn't have to be flat - it is easier to get to the inside surface.

The mica itself can be polished with something like Autosol, don't use too much pressure and try not to get polish between the sheets where they overlap. I don't know for certain but it may discolour with the heat - better to be safe than sorry.

 

Hi Alex, I’ve nearly finished a 327 and was surprised by how simple they are, although mine didn’t have quite as many challenges as yours. A vinegar bath and a good clean and reassembled with an R55, lead washer and gland packing from Old Coleman Parts. I’m just waiting for my oh so shiny chimney from Fred! I do fancy repairing the one I have though as the frame is good it just needs a few new panels and will hopefully be useful for my next quicklite. Interested to see how you get on!

 

Hi Scott,

I just saw your other thread and your 327 is coming up a treat, so well done. Mine has indeed had a harder life and requires some more TLC!
And thanks to Henry and Tony for all the good advice....

Progress with the mica globe. The vinegar worked well to free the lighting port door which now slides well up and down. Fortunately the small mica panel behind it was intact. I cleaned and polished the other panels with a dremel, mini buffing pad and mothers. They came up really well. I need to replace the missing panel now. I bought some small Valor stove windows which I’m planning to use ‘in series’ to cover the aperture.

I rather like the rusty patina on the frame, so I think I’ll keep it to preserve the authentic distressed look....

I have reinforced the broken mesh of the vent with new brass mesh which now holds it all together with copper wire ‘stitches’....That’s all I can do for now while waiting for parts to arrive...

 

Henry,

would white spirit be any good as fuel? Looking at the composition, it’s pretty much naphtha based...

 

@Henry Plews

Thank you for the information about the check valve on that style of pump. You can see that I’ve never worked on one (although there’s one in the queue somewhere, I think). I’ll have to get my beady eyes on to it.

I’m not sure about the white spirit, Alex. I’ll leave that for your countrypersons to answer, but I’d be very cautious if you don’t know exactly what it is. (Over here in Oz the stuff called White Spirit (not White Spirits) is synthetic turpentine).

Cheers

Tony

 

@Tony Press You're welcome, to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

White spirit is the same over here i.e. a turpentine substitute. I've never used it as a fuel so can't comment on its suitability. There's no doubt it will burn but I suspect the relatively high specific gravity would make it unsuitable as an alternative to Coleman fuel.

Where are the scientists when you need them ?

 

That's synthetic turpentine, Alex. Its definitely not a suitable substitute for Coleman Fuel. Yes, its stated naphtha-based but its more of the medium to heavy naphtha. You can see the number of carbon atoms per molecule stated as well. 9-12, which is basically somewhere between mineral spirits and kerosene. Its not volatile enough for your intended purpose. You're the chemist, Alex. I'm sure you know better than us all.

 

Good point, I’m a chemist and the label and composition suggested it may be light enough when heated properly and ‘cracked’ into smaller molecules, if slightly stinky (due to the aromatic content)...I won’t risk it. I’ve ordered Holts break cleaning fluid and I have some Coleman left over...

Progress with the mica shade. I’ve repaired the missing panels by cutting the Valor sheets to size and carefully pushing them into the grooves of the frame. Fiddly as all remnants of the old panel need to be removed with a Stanley knife first. Then the frames are pressed together firmly to secure the new sheets in place. Clearly he new window is more transparent than the original ones, but that’s a plus I think...

 

No joy with the fuel valve. The old broken stud resists the extractor, even after boiling the valve in dilute citric acid for an hour, heating and applying oil. The stud has fractured it seems, but doesn’t want to move. What else could I try before throwing the whole thing away?

 

You might have to heat it more to melt any solder that could be there holding in place. Not so much that the brazed area of the valve stem tube would melt.
I don't know if its soldered in place previously.
While doing so the soldering at the fuel pick up tube would melt but you can easily re-solder it back.

 

If its just the threaded area that's stuck, maybe heat(dull red) and quench in water for a few cycles. That should release it.

 

Ha, thanks MYN,

I’ll try that. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I thought about dipping it into muriatic acid overnight to eat the steel away, but then the zinc in the brass would start to go, causing damage to the threads, so maybe not a good idea. I’ll try the heat/quench cycling method you suggest.

ps. Meanwhile I Just bought a 327 from Mike on eBay. There’s plan B!

 

Ok guys,

so apologies for the press silence. I’ve ordered parts from the US over Christmas, and the started at work on the 4th... I can now post some progress at least on ‘parts sourcing’!

During the break, Santa very kindly offered to help with the stuck valve. He’s a modern type of Santa with a very well equipped Workshop and a mig welder, and he’s also a member of this forum! He will come forward if he wishes to....

Anyway I posted the valve to the North Pole and I got it back this week in a red envelope stamped by Rudolph. Inside there was a free valve!


He did a fabulous and very neat job. He also sent some photos of the process and wanted no rewards. I can’t thank him enough. An example of the good souls you find on this forum.

Whilst Santa was busy fixing the valve, I spotted a replacement mixer tube on eBay for $7. The same seller also advertised a 427/327 cage and collar for around $10 (the pair), so I thought I could buy all 3 as my frame was very corroded at the top. The new mixer also as a knurled nut which appears to be original to a 1920s lamp? The frame is identical to mine.

 

Then I also received other bits for the fettle: the Roto type generator and leather pump, but I still need to clean the pump tube with acetone, as advised on here.

question: was there Originally a lead gasket between The tank and the fuel valve? If so can I use a Viton o-ring instead?

 

No, I'm sure they just used thread sealer, so a couple of turns of PTFE tape should suffice. As always, a dunk test before adding fuel is strongly recommended.

 

This is a tapered fit. There is usually no need for any sealant. Now, having said that Henry's suggestion is good, PTFE will work but be sure you use the kind that will stand up to petro. Over here it's yellow in color. You could also use lock-tite, just go easy with it or you'll never get the part back out without a real struggle!
Really, both the PTFE and lock-tite are used just for indexing the part (correct alignment in relation to other parts). Unless the threads are messed up the fact that it's tapered should prevent any leakage.

 

@george

Thanks for the correction.

 

Great, thanks guys. I cleaned the pump tube of all debris and left it filled with acetone overnight. Alas, I still can’t move the ball with a wooden skewer. I can see a new challenge emerging here!

I’ll repeat during the week before taking the pump valve apart...or trying to!

 

There's too much solidified gunk inside the pump tube and possibly the nrv too.
Acetone might take a long while to dissolve or soften those. If there are bits of leather as well, acetone won't make it.
Try concentrated lye (sodium hydroxide) solution for a preliminary soak. Or a strongly alkaline engine degreser or a mixture of both.
I'd use a strength that's capable of 'dissolving' flesh and hair.
If there's rust inside the tube, you'll need acids as well.

 

Put it in a pan o water and boil it for half an hour. This will soften any varnish and help the acetone or whatever to dissolve it. Alternatively try some of this
POR15 Cleaner Degreaser - 1 quart (0.946 litre) Bottle
(it also comes in a larger size i.e. 1 U.S. gallon).

It may seem expensive but it is a concentrate and must be diluted. Detailed instructions are on the label but basically Dilute with hot (not boiling) water. Four parts water to one part cleaner degreaser works well for most jobs but may be diluted up to 10:1.
If that doesn't shift it, there's something other than varnish-like fuel residues that's holding it.

 

Myn, Henry,

Great thanks. The POR15 cleaner sounds interesting but I might try the other options you suggest first! You sound like expert degreasers to me.. no doubt you’ve had far more experience at removing or freeing up gunky metal parts?...

apologies for the messy photos in the previous message. I want them to appear after the text but when I press ‘submit’ (iPhone) they get moved to the top.

 

@Alex74

With an iPhone, you accurately place your photographs by moving the blinking curser to the point in the text where you want the photo to appear. Make sure it’s flashing at the correct point and press “Full Image”.

Repeat as necessary.

Cheers

Tony