Tilley X410A first fire up

Had this sitting around for close to 10 years but never got round to using it.
In fairly good condition but the oxidization on the fount has got a bit worse since I got it.
Have given it a polish and fitted a mantle.
From what I understand they are hard to find in the UK and were an export model?
Perhaps that's why I was able to find this here in New Zealand?

Few questions, do these take the same insect screen as a regular X246?
The preheat torch only just fits on here, so an insert screen will take up more space for it to slide over i feel.
I also believe there was an optional lampshade for these, im sure I saw a website selling reproductions, but can't find it, they were polished aluminum from memory and about the diameter of a dinner plate.
I also see that the handle stems can screw off but the handle stops you unscrewing them.
I would like to remove it so I can repaint it but not sure if this is possible or not.

It also surges occasionally, I think it might be dirt in the vaporizer, it will puff a bit of a flame and a puff of black smoke, it sort of settled down after leaving run for a bit. Opening and closing the valve to activate the pricker also helped.
I dont want to strip it down and damage the seal just yet, but it might be necessary.
Here are some photos including one next to my coleman 249 for comparison

 

@nzoomed
That is a nice find .. looks great in the photos

I seem to remember that the original vapouriser was a different length.. a bit longer, which would help with getting the preheater in if the screen was fitted?
You could check the length by measuring + comparing to a standard 606 from another Tilley? it probably just needs a bit of a clean :-)

The handles can be a pain to remove, similar to the PL 53 lanterns..
maybe ask other members what they have done?
always good to have a few seals as spares
Regards

 

Yes it takes the same insect screen as a X246 but . .

Correct. The original vapouriser (part no. 1865) is 10mm longer than the 606 as used on a X246 and I can tell by how low the hood sits on your example that it's fitted with a 606 which is why there isn't room for both the torch and a screen.

Correct vapouriser on the right.

 

A lucky find indeed!

 

That’s a really nice example @nzoomed, one of my favourite Tilleys.

 

I've had three in the UK - now down to two. They're not easy to find here but definitely not impossible...

 

Nice lantern, @nzoomed.

It’s a candidate for the Reference Gallery.

Cheers

Tony

 

I had four at one time, now down to one. They came from Zimbabwe.

 

Your right, this is the same length as the 606 in my X246 stormlantern measuring about 127mm.
I always assumed it used the same vaporiser, ive just been reading a bit about these and it appears these are only rated at 200CP, im not sure what would affect its light output compared to a standard 350CP X246, but I can only assume the correct generator must have a smaller jet size on it if thats the case?
Side by side as you can see in the photos, there is not a huge difference in light output between this and my coleman 249 which is supposed to be 300CP model, I notice that the tilleys always have a whiter light which you may be able to observe in the photo too, both mantles are thorium.

I might just end up having to clean up the handles in place which will make it a bit tricky, but doable, they seem to all be painted in silver in most tilleys and no zinc plating that I can tell, I would have taken them to the zinc platers along with the rest of my lantern parts if I could get it off.

I found some spares i had forgotten about from fettlebox which are viton rubber, so that should last a long time, I have some tilley washers but they are junk, they perished and cracked in a matter of months, perhaps they use viton rubber now, someone might know. Either way, I plan to eventually stamp out my own if I get the right punches.

Definitely a 606 in my lantern. Quite strange that its been changed, looks like its had so little use but no surprises here, later tilley vapourisers around this period were typically poorer quality I find, trying to find the correct one will be as rear as hens teeth.
I typically place my insect screens on the inside of my X246 stormlanterns, i might be able to do something similar with this one and then I can still use the preheater with no issues, I see there are two different styles of insect screen, one that clips on in two halfs and has a spring that clamps it on, and another more dish shaped that slides over, the latter type would be more suitable for this lantern.

Even more lucky that I only paid $40 bucks ($NZD) for it at the swapmeet, ive had several collectors who have spotted it and asking if I would sell it to them, but i said no, im keeping it lol.

Yes I quite like this model, something a bit different and had been looking out for one for quite some time.

Im sure some made it to market there, likely went to the likes of railways and other industry rather than the consumer market im guessing?

Thanks, happy to have it on there, I can get a better photo if you like.

 

@nzoomed
It might be that the 200cp refers to the burner which in the first models was a 2 air tube model?
Have a look through the gallery, there should be some there.
Yours has basically the same set up as an x246b which claimed 300cp (ahem)
Perhaps there was a difference in the vapouriser jet as well?

p.s. there should be a date on the base

p.p.s. the nearest i have got to one of these is the tank on an AL15a that Tilley repurposed, bless them

 

Yes the early models had 2 air tubes, but I'm not aware of the later ones being upgraded to a higher output from what I've read so far.
It certainly seems close to the brightness of my X246, which i naturally would expect with a 606 vaporiser.
My guess is the jet hole is a different size, I can't see what else would change this in the design.
My one is dated September 1962.
I saw a thread where someone pulled theirs apart and found a "flexible" fuel tube inside, presumably plastic of some sort?
My one appears to be a metal tube with a bend to it when I looked inside through the filler cap.

 

@nzoomed

The best posts in the Reference Gallery have a number of photos showing not only the whole lantern, but features such as stamps and dates, style of control cock, original glass etc.

Yours is a fine example.


Cheers

Tony

 

Hi mate the best way to take the handle off, is to use a large flat head screw driver into the loops and open one up, just enough to separate the loops.
This will do the job, so you can unscrew the handle.
I only do this on one side, as there is no need to do both sides, then when you put it back together use leather and pliers, and softly squeeze the loop back together.
Does that make sense?
By the way that's a beautiful lamp.

 

Ive taken some better photos and will post them there shortly.

Yes that makes sense thanks.
That did actually cross my mind but wasnt too keen on bending it, should i take a bunch of parts to the zinc platers, i will probably do this and get them done.
The fount is showing sign of corrosion under the plating, but for now its still looking relatively OK. Being such a rare model its probably worthwhile restoring fully. There is a bunch of rust on the ventilator enamel that doesnt fully show in the photos, but being so hard to source spares, its probably worth getting it recoated.
This crowd do a ceramic aluminium coating on exhaust pipes and when I spoke to them a while back, they told me they get a few people sending in the tops of their lanterns to get redone.
Exhaust Heat Management • High Performance Coatings
I would say its better than the enamel finish these had from factory.
Im sure they used to offer a wider range of colours, but now it appears they pretty much just do black, grey and silver, not coleman green unfortunately, but i should have a chat to them, because your lantern will last a lifetime with this.

 

Most, but not all, Tilley lamps and lanterns were rated at 300cp (not 350cp) and used either a 169 or 606 vapouriser.

Indeed there is. Having measured the tip of the cleaning wire from 169 and 606 vapourisers (for all 300cp lamps & lanterns) at 0.007 inch, I then measured the end of the wire from the 1865 vapouriser on my X410A and it's only 0.006 inch. Not much smaller but enough to reduce the cp rating. In case my vernier calipers (or eyesight) aren't 100% accurate, other possible evidence of a smaller orifice is suggested in advertising literature for all 300cp lamps and lanterns "Burns for approx. 12 hours on 1.5 pints of paraffin (kerosene)." Or 8 hours on 1 pint but in this advert (subscribers only) X410 X458 X460 posted by @Anthony . . . "the fuel container holds 1 pint of paraffin/kerosene, which is sufficient for 10 hours light."

 

Sorry, my mistake, I meant to say 300CP.

That confirms my suspicion of the orifice size.
This means my light will be running at 300CP with the 606 vapouriser that's installed.
I wonder how easy it would be to cut down a 169 and weld or thread it onto the base?
Any idea how thick the steel is on these?

 

I’ve just been browsing The Gallery and found that @Neighbour Al posted a pic of his lamp with an original shade in 2012.

 

The short answer is not very. I know there's the remnants of one in the shed which I'll measure tomorrow if I can find it. In the meantime, try scaling this down to give you some sort of idea .

 

That looks thicker than I thought it would be.
Probably thick enough to cut a fine thread on the base, would need to be a tapered gas thread to seal right. Would be best to experiment with an old generator i guess.

 

You may want to ask @presscall I believe he has managed to do this.

 

Thanks, that's handy to know. If the vaporiser on this lamp is no good, then I may as well replace it with the correct type

 

Not welded or threaded onto the base, but a section cut out of the length and the two remaining lengths silbrazed (silver soldered) together.

Making a Tilley CS56 ‘short’ vapouriser tube

 

Now i discovered that some of the issues im having with this lantern is due to the tank loosing pressure, the non return valve and filler cap seal are OK, but its leaking around the inside part thats threaded, im not sure what is even supposed to make this seal here on the thread. see photo

That looks quite a feat what you achieved! I was thinking in my case I get a 169 vaporiser and cut down to correct length at the base and either thread in or silphos/silver solder it to the screw in base, the cleaning rod would also need to be shortened.

 

After some pumping take out the pump in one piece and see if it's full of kerosene.
While it's completely out of the fount, pump it at the floor or outside.

 

It's all empty, but if i shake the fount, it will start squirting out as the fuel hits the pump.
The pump appears to have the outer ring/thumb screw thread on to the pump body and it moves up and down as you unscrew it from the filler cap.
It appears to be leaking around this inner thread.

 

0.029inch / 0.74mm.
If you're thinking of tapping the inside of a cut-down 169 vapouriser, you'll need a special tap because the thread is 0.340" x 36 BSW. See here Tilley Quiz: what’s this tap for?

Alternatively, reduce the diameter of the brass threads so they are a tightish fit in the tube and seal with silver solder.

You may find this useful, it's actually for a Bialaddin but the principal is the same.
Bialaddin 310 vapour tube

 

Oh, wow, i never actually realised those things were threaded on to begin with!
That makes the job super easy, I can find one of those taps easily enough, here I was assuming I would need to find either the correct tap and corresponding die nut and/or screwcutting gears and tools for my myford lathe to perform this.
I would like to experiment with an old 169 vaporiser first before messing around with a new one.
The hardest part I see in all of this would be to shorten the cleaning rod to the correct length.

 

I just realized I posted this in the wrong thread, so I will continue the discussion back here.

This is how the pump looks when removed, see the gap between the thumbscrew ring?
It will screw down when I tighten it and the gap moves, and will change depending on the direction you screw it, see bottom arrow.
I dont see anything that seals this part, except for the thread itself. I'm not sure why this ring moves up and down on the inside thread, I never thought it was a separate part, so am a bit surprised.
This is where the air is leaking out from.

 

The only sealing washer is the one at the very bottom. It fits inside a brass fitting which it is doing so in your photo. Those two pieces should then be seated inside the next knurled fitting as it is screwed onto the lamp. There should be no gap where your left hand arrow points. The top fitting is there to guide the pump and does not seal.




Edit: @nzoomed, Does that brass fitting with the washer inside it, fit inside the knurled fitting? Or should it not be there and the washer sits into the knurled fitting on its own:




Tony

 

Hopefully these photos help, it looks like your pump is a different type.
The large knurled thumb nut for screwing the pump in place is flat on both sides, yours looks like it has a recess in it to take the washer. Instead my pump has a ring that the washer sits inside and just floats on the tube, the only thing that's holding it in place is the large knurled nut.
Now what is labeled as the guide in that diagram appears that it's supposed to screw down onto this knurled nut to stop it coming undone when you remove the pump?
Mine has quite a gap as you can see in the photos and does not come down on it as there is not enough thread inside to accomplish this.
The question is why? Is it possible it's had a different guide fitted off another pump?

Hopefully these photos below help.

As far as the leaks go, I feel that the washer has just gotten a bit hard with age, so I will replace it.
It appears all that is making a seal is the compression of the rubber pushes it tight against the pump tube.
Still a bit of a nuisance why this ring keeps moving up and down the thread however.