Quirks Victory Help Identify this lamp fount

I was fortunate to purchase this Quirks Victory lamp. The fount is not the typical nor is the bend in the riser from the tank.
The solder work on the lamp is rough as most of these Quirks appear to be.
The fount has pinch marks all around the inside edge of the base plate of the fount. I suspect this may help identify who made this?

Best,

Brian

 

So you bought that…

I’m not sure what lamp it is. I saw it in the original auction and when it later appeared on eBay.

It has the AGM burner that Quirk later copied, and has a pricker that looks like a Quirks pricker (does it screw in or is it push-pull?). Quirk Patent here:
https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/quirk’s-burner-patent-no-3904-1921.17861/

The other bits and pieces at the burner end look like Quirks, but the tank and the fuel piping are not something I’ve seen associated with Quirks.

There is also what looks like a female screw joint that has been blocked by a screw or bolt. It would be good to see details of this and all of the fittings.

Cheers

Tony

@Ole Larson

 

I forgot to add… Some early Coleman tanks have those “pinch marks”.

Cheers

Tony

 

Hi @Ole Larson , The fount appears to be of Coleman origin whether original to this lamp when manufactured or not. I would be interested in seeing if there is any stamping on the fiber valve wheel. Is the fount side made of steel?

@Tony Press


Larry

 

As far as I can tell from documents and collections, Quirks did not use Coleman tanks for their lamps.

Cheers

Tony

 

I would have to agree with Larry, that looks like an early Coleman 327 fount and valve assembly... The rest looks like an accident

 

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the help.
The fount has no marks on it, there is nothing on the fiber wheel.

The burner is definitely Quirks as I have an original AGM to compare with.

The pricker is the screw type as per Quirks.

The bent tube looks similar to wall hung lamp fittings by Quirks.
The valve assembly and fount look like Coleman?

Shade rest looks like AGM/ Quirks?

kindly,

Brian

 

@Ole Larson , can you tell me if the fount has steel or brass side please?

 

Don’t yet know on the fount sides. The lamp is sitting in my office at work. I will put a magnet on it tomorrow and let you know. My guess is it is nickel plated brass.

Quite a mess of solder on the fuel valve top.
Best


Brian

 

@Ole Larson

Does the burner have a Patent No. on it? I thought I remembered that from the eBay listing.


Cheers

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

Here is a photo of the burner with patent number.



kind regards,

Brian

 

Thanks, Brian.

This is the AGM burner (carrying that Patent No.), fitted with the Quirk pricker.

The later Quirk copy of the AGM burner is found on the "Goulburn Specials", but conversely, the AGM-cast burner is found on the Quirk's Victory wall lamp (Quirk’s Victory Wall Lamp).

It seems likely that Quirk's used their patented screw pricker on AGM-cast burners, and also made their own copy of the burner (that does not have the patent number). I'm not sure if any of the "Goulburn Specials" have the AGM-cast patent burner (it's hard to tell from the Reference Gallery on some examples), but most have the Quirk's copy.

Note that the lamp of @Nils Stephenson (link above) also has a screw blocking off a threaded port.


Cheers

Tony

 

Tony,


From recollection the founts on both the wall lamps in the gallery are not the same as those on the table lamps and lantern? Don’t look to be Kayan / Netelsfold founts.

By the way the hole on top of the burner is threaded.
Best,

Brian

 

Yes,
the wall lamp posted by Neil also has the AGM cast burner with patent number and a different fount.

I would guess Quirks used the parts
On hand from AGM prior to using the ones they cast.
Likely the early Victory lamps used original AGM bits?
Kindly,

Brian

 

Brian

The Kayen-style tanks appear on the Goulburn Special lanterns and table lamps (in a few slightly different variations). The earlier Victory lamps do not have the Kayen-style tank.

Cheers

Tony

 

The end of the tube where the burner attaches looks like what is on the Quirks wall lamp. It has just had the original valve control hole plugged with a screw.

This could have been the shade rest for the wall lamp, but as far as I know, no one has ever seen a Quirks wall lap with the shade ring still in place. If it is what should be on the wall lamp I would be very interested in better pictures and dimensions.

There aren't any screws blocking off any ports on my lamp. Which screw do you mean?

 

@Nils Stephenson

I was looking on my phone so now I’ll go to a bigger screen and see what I was I was looking at.

Thos is what I was looking at (below). It’s not a port (as I described), by the looks. But what is it? Shade holder fitting?




Cheers

Tony

 

Can this one be re-jigged to be utilised as a wall-lamp? Best of both worlds?

Alec.

 

@Tony Press
It is the shade holder fitting. Looks the same as in the second lot of photos Ole posted.

 

Nils

Yes… I see that now I’ve looked properly!

Edit: I think we see which bits of what have been put where on Brian’s lamp, now. I'll get such into the photo editor later today.


Cheers

Tony

 

Hi Folks,

Long day here in the US considering what's going on overseas now...

Larry,
The sides of the fount are brass.

Nils, Tony,
The shade holder ring is also Nickle plated brass and to me looks just like those on Quirks Table lamps. The shade rest is the same as what is on Quirks wall lamps.
The tube end at the fount is cranked opposite what it would be if from a wall lamp. The Nickle plating is continuous from the shade support to the fount attachment, unbroken.
This causes me to speculate that is was meant to be like this from new. There is no previous connection point on the tube, where in past the frill which supports the lamp tube on a wall lamp had been connected in past.
I note the two "ball ends" on the tube perfectly align over each other. I would guess this is not an easy thing to do?
Careful inspection of the fiber wheel shows no sign of any embossed lettering ever being on it.
Shade ring interior measures exactly 4" on my calipers, the edge is exactly 1/4" tall the screw bump up areas are 15/32" tall
There is a embossed design pattern on the underside of the ring showing is was designed to show from below. So possibly a part from a hollow wire lamp originally.
Ring is same as AGM No. 169 hanging lamp on the gallery here AGM 169 | Classic Pressure Lamps & Heaters

Regards,

Brian

 

Thanks, Brian.

Cheers

Tony

 

@Ole Larson
Maybe I'm a bit slow here, but just to clarify something for me. You mention a shade holder ring and a shade rest. Is this the same part you are talking about. You mention the shade rest is the same as on the Quirks wall lamps. Have you seen one and do you have a picture? Of the Quirks wall lamps, I only know of the one Neil has and my own and neither have a shade/globe rest. This is a part I would very much like to find (or make) for mine.

 

@Ole Larson , Thanks Brian, whether it’s of any interest to you or anyone else, this particular “L” fount on this lamp example can be dated by the valve bung, and the baseplate “relief crimp pattern” , this type was used on Coleman, Yale, and a few Sunshine Safety 1916-1921.
The lantern valve on this example is time line correct for this fount, the no stamp straight shoulder fiber wheel with a steel shaft stem is late 1917-1919.
Identical steel sided “G” version founts were also of this 1917-1920 era.

Larry

 

Larry,
Thank you for dialing in who made the fount and approximate time period. Great information.

Tony, Nils,
Do we know who made the founts on early Quirks wall lamps?

Nils,

The "Shade Ring" I referred to is the circular disc which would support the glass shade and fix it in place.

By shade rest what I meant was what Tony called the "shade holder fitting" this part appears the same as the photos of your and Neil's wall lamps.



I do not have access to anything other than the photo's of both your lamps in the gallery.

Best,

Brian

 

Brian

We don’t know (or at least I don’t know) who made the early Quirk’s tanks — but they may have used AGM tanks or possibly had them made in Melbourne.

I’ve never seen any connection between Quirk’s and Coleman.

Having followed this lamp from the first rural auction, and now seeing the detail of your photos, my assessment is that:

• the burner is a Quirk’s/AGM burner (patent stamped casting/Quirk’s pricker); and the glass holder is Quirk’s Victory
• the “C” tubing underneath I’ve not seen before, but the fittings immediately adjacent to the burner are identical to that on the early Quirk’s Victory wall lamp. I’ve not seen this “C” shaped tubing in a Quirk’s-related lamp.
• The ‘distal’ end of that tubing looks like it thins (I don’t know what to make of that— it could be an optical illusion), but the fitting at the distal end (near the fount) looks of similar style to the fittings at the burner end.

The way the tubing is attached to the Coleman control valve assembly makes me think that this is a lamp that was attached to a Coleman tank out of some form of necessity — either because its original tank was ruined, or because it came from a hollow wire system.

I’m still puzzled by the C-tubing. Do you think it is, or would ever have been, possible to operate the Quirk’s valve wheel and spindle fitted to that lamp within the curve of the C-tubing?





Cheers

Tony

 

Hi @Tony Press , if the lamp you show is yours, what is the size of this fount 7” ?
Could I see the baseplate and possibly the fount bung ?

Larry

 

Tony,

Distal end-

The tubing does thin out as a result of what seems to be a vice crush from the past.
Slight vice "teeth" marks show on the tube. Possibly from removal and then fitting to the new fount in past?

Valve Wheel operation-

The space within the curve measured from approximate location where valve fitting would seat to the lower tube is 2".

Measured my AGM Lanterns to check.
My AGM 335 (circa 1916-1917) valve in closed position measures 7/8"
My AGM 1250 (Circa 1920)valve in closed position measures 1 3/8"
There is enough room to have installed & operated a Quirks/ AGM valve w/ wheel within the "C" curve.

AGM Wall lamp Fount-

(According to Neil, AGM did not make a wall lamp but possibly sold one for export, model 178 wall lamp as sold by Stanley's London. This lamp is very similar the the Quirks wall lamp except the fount.)

Best,

Brian

 

Thanks, Brian.

@coleman54

The Quirk’s wall lamp I’ve shown above is that of @Nils Stephenson (Quirk’s Victory Wall Lamp). The rest of the photos are Brian’s.

Cheers

Tony

 

Ok Thanks @Tony Press .


Larry