500 spiders made homeless by latest acquisition

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by rayw, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Inside the hood and around the top of the frame there were lots of old webs and dead spiders (dont know what killed them) but they were dried out, I did wonder if spiders shed skins as some were pretty transparent, so using my air compressor I blew all of them away before I started, none of them seemed to complain.

    Dont know if the pre heat wick was asbestos, so I wet it and dumped it, replaced with a new one I already had.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  2. M.Meijer

    M.Meijer Subscriber

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    Yes, the old ones are asbestos, and perfectly safe to use as intended. Asbestos is not like a virus, will not give you cancer when touched etc. but I read quite often that they are replaced 'to be safe'. Unless you delivered this little coil of fabric to a special asbestos collecting point, chances are it is now in an environment (waste) were it could do harm, even if hypothetical.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  3. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @rayw

    Spiders shed their exoskeleton (skin) as they grow.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  4. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    While asbestos is not like a virus, it sheds fibers which are extremely carcinogenic and should be avoided.
    I soaked it and put it in a plastic bag before putting it in rubbish for landfill, where it will be locked into a damp environment.


    I thought the transparent spiders looked kind of hollow, I wondered if they had been sucked dry by bigger spiders, or as you say shed exoskeletons,
     
  5. M.Meijer

    M.Meijer Subscriber

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    Only if you disturb it, like cutting with a circular saw (not a knife) or when grinding. Hence caution with old building materials containing asbestos. But to my knowledge only living organisms 'shed' fibres naturally, and not a mineral - again if not disturbed mechanicly. Has there ever been a rapport indicating users of (old) Tilley and W&B lamps having an above average of cancer incidence? Of course it is your choice to replace an old wick, but I am against spreading fear, or caution even, against imagined risks. It is much better - and in the end safer - to understand possible dangers rather than to fear them.
     
  6. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    The asbestos in the lamp was not compacted and would be easily disturbed.
    The danger of asbestos is not an imaginary one to me my friend next door died just under two years ago, from cancer triggered by exposure to asbestos in his job as a builder. As an apprentice I worked in a power station where a fellow woker died of asbestosis. Not wanting to bang on about this but just wanted it out.
     
  7. M.Meijer

    M.Meijer Subscriber

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    Like I said, your prerogative to replace that wick. But why lecturing me on the dangers of asbestos? Did I suggest in any way there are no risks with this mineral? But I do suggest I am comfortable with what I know about asbestos, and old asbestos wicks used as such do not make me lose any sleep. Enough said, Mike
     
  8. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I am afraid I also know of one friend (Mechanic) with asbestosis and one who has died of it (ex- Royal Navy stoker). I also know that undisturbed or better still sealed it is reasonably safe, however I am with Ray on this one. It is better off in the ground and not on my lamp. Especially for the price of a kevlar replacement.
     
  9. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I'm not sure why the term "lecture" would apply here, looking back I mentioned that I replaced it, when you questioed this I mentioned why I felt it a good idea.
    This was my personal choice and with good reason, others can make their own choice
     
  10. MYN

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    In this age, I think most, if not all of us are well aware that asbestos is a confirmed carcinogen when ingested. In our right minds, we'll avoid breathing in any substantial amounts of it. Or avoid activities that tend to make them airborne.
    It is quite unlikely for any of us to be exposed to the hazadous conditions that earlier workers had on regard to this. The main difference is that there was very little if any, awareness of the dangers. So I'd guess there wasn't much hesitation entering or working in asbestos dust-laden environments.
    Asbestos is still being used for insulation and packings in the industry around here. In fact I still have plenty of asbestos rope lying somewhere in my house. So long as people are aware and handle them appropriately during use, I don't see why anyone should get paranoid over it.
     
  11. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Well on a cold and boring day with some light snow, I was bored and I didn't have the seal kits to work on this lamp, so I went into the loft and dug out another W&B lamp I bought about 10 years ago at a car boot sale (I'm not really a collector), the man had 2 lamps and a few spares all ex army, he wanted 11 pounds for both lamps and I only had 9 in my pocket, dam i bought one lamp and two new vaporisers .

    Took the lamp into the garage and gues what.
    20210130_140231.jpg

    The lamp has the same aluminium collar with the same inscription, the hood looks slightly darker but I think this one has been used more, and the screws that hold the frame to the fount are brass the new one has steel screws, the seals were not too bad so I fired it up

    20210130_140254.jpg

    Someone mentioned karma earlier, it seems these lamps find me, I now have 4 W&B lamps.

    Just one thing the mantle mounting grooves seem close and the mantles seem to go a strange shape when burned i.e. a bit saucer shaped rather than golf ball shape, am I missing something?
     
  12. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    A pair !

    Regarding the saucer shape, more pressure usually helps to form the mantle better.. they say to pump 'til your thumb hurts ;).. But you've got 4, so you know all that..

    On the spigot that the lower part of the mantle ties to there isn't a groove, as such, so if the string wasn't tight enough I suppose the mantle could move when burning it in?? :-k
     
  13. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I have noticed that on some of my vapaluxes the mantle does travel up the support sometimes. Some mantles have better string than others and sometimes it seems "slippier". I have bought another support and plan on roughing up the lowest 2mm above the wider part to encourage the mantle lower to stay put.
    Nice pair of lamps tho'
    Chris
     
  14. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Here is the one I fired up thi afternoon, the mantle is a new one, it's actually a bit better after burning for about two hours

    IMG_20210130_170900_888.jpg

    This is the spigot on the other lamp, it's the same on both

    IMG_20210130_170851_881.jpg
     
  15. Gary Waller

    Gary Waller Subscriber

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    A nice pair of lamps...:clap:
     
  16. paul m

    paul m Subscriber

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    Still catching flies hopefully....
     
  17. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    As I recall I think all Willis Bates burner spigots are the same?.. Not certain about the E41 though.

    That looks a good shaped mantle to me... Lots of pumps (100) and the dark patches will burn off with use..

    I always find that they take a while to 'burn in' :thumbup:

    A couple of spankers there .
     
  18. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Thank you
    Maybe I meddle with things too much, but looking at it made me wish I had access to a lathe to make a spigot 10mm longer, wonder if that would give a better shape mantle.
     
  19. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Which is pretty much what Tilley did for the x246b/500 version along with a bigger mantle.
     
  20. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Oh no, now you've told me that I won't rest untill I find a way to try it.
     
  21. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Yes, but with the same 606 vapouriser that was incapable of filling the larger mantle - so they had you use more pressure (130-140 pumpstrokes IIRC) to provide the extra fuel/air mixture. In an X246B tank? - no, I don't think so. [-X

    I'm pretty sure they subsequently brought out a so-called '500' vapouriser with the same external dimensions as the 606 and, presumably, a larger jet (but I'm speculating there). I've no idea how that worked out.

    Don't bother - I had a longer spigot machined up and I can't say there was much difference in light output. But then I wasn't going to pump up the tank to twice the normal pressure. There were some light grey areas on the mantle which I took to be the precursor of BMD suggesting insufficient vapour/air to fill the mantle... :whistle:
     
  22. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    One question David, did you use a bigger mantle when you tried the longer spigot?
    My concern is the distance between the tieing points on the spigot, you can see in my picture the burned mantle looks like an upsidedown pumpkin, I wondered if increasing the distance and using the same mantle it would assume a more elliptical shape when it burns in.
     
  23. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @rayw

    The mantle on your lamp looks fine to me. It has formed a natural shape. If it doesn’t exhibit black mantle disease, and emits a good light, you’re all good.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  24. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Tony
    Yes I'm sure that it's going pretty well, I'm a hopeless tinkering addict, it just makes me wonder what would happen, also I imagined the people who made this lamp understood quite a bit about what they were doing.
     
  25. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Yep, longer spigot as per the 500 dimensions and fitted with a 500 mantle to suit.

    Mind you, I don't think Tilley ever actually claimed 500cp - I think you were meant to infer that yourself from the use of the '500' name... :roll: :whistle:
     
  26. MYN

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    A tribute to the 500 spiders.
     
  27. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Finally Postman brought the new seals for my latest lamp, so I fitted them and gave it a try, I tried to arrange the mantle a bit better when I tied it on, and I think it's better.
    One of them has a green knob on the stop cock and the other has a black one is this something which relates to the date of manufacture?


    IMG_20210205_142807_747.jpg
     
  28. Alex74

    Alex74 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Looks great. I love finding old lanterns covered in cobwebs and dust. It’s nice to take photos to show ‘before’ and ‘after’ (restoration) too...
     
  29. M.Meijer

    M.Meijer Subscriber

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    @rayw The black knobs were introduced on the Vapalux 320 model lamp, so perhaps as early as the late 60's.
    On the model M-1 the green knobs were phased out, well into the 70's. But being army issue, your lamp(s) could have both due to indiscriminate servicing, and the colour of the knob not a reliable indicator of age.
     
  30. rayw

    rayw United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Yes I love the feeling that now instead of being stuck In someone's shed or dumped in the skip there's a chance it may live on for some years.

    Thanks that's interesting thanks, I also have the feeling the spider lamp has been serviced by the army, the label on the bottom seemed to come from them, and has their reference code, I can see a situation where they strip down several lamps and replace a few bits and bung them together, test light them, then put them back in storage.
     

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