Austramax 3/300 Red Hood.

Ok, I'll have a go and see what you blokes think, plus Ellie.

Tell me how crazy an idea this is.

Coleman were manufacturing in Australia a lot earlier than. let's say, the majority think.From at least the 40's and I believe as early as 1936.

Coleman had a plant in Sydney and they decided to close it around 1948/9. Austramax decided to buy the Coleman plant and punch out a new model, hence the change from 2/300 to 3/300. They were going to model their new 3/300 along the lines of a 242B fount.

The plant was shipped to Melbourne, Austramax gave it a go but it didn't work out. Despite it not working out they decided to remain with the 3/300 model # from then on.

The Coleman plant was shipped to Colton's in South Australia where Colton's made Colemans from 1950 to 1955.

Can any of my fantastic story be true? I suspect it's not going to go well as it's been impossible for me to get anyone to think that Coleman were manufacturing in Australia so early. I don't suppose it will be any different this time.

From here I will say I have an ace up my sleeve. No, I don't have positive proof That Coleman were manufacturing in Sydney. I may or may not be getting there but it's not proven yet.

 

I know this isn't a lamp - we'll get to that.

Just to help show perhaps it isn't so fantastic to believe Coleman were manufacturing in Australia prior to what is believed here is an ad for you to have a look at.

Yeah, I know it's an ad and you can't trust them. When you see enough different ones over years all saying the same thing, you believe, well at least I do.

May 1941

 

Earlier I suggested Coleman had a plant in Sydney.

I swear I hadn't seen this ad until 2 minutes ago, I hadn't seen either of these iron ads prior to posting about Coleman having a Sydney factory.

This isn't a great ad but I think it adds impact.


Jan 1941

 

I think there's some dispute over whether Coleman made in the UK although they had addresses here & 'Made in England' on some products. Maybe someone can remind me? Coleman Solus was one product marked as such (not all of them). They do look more like British stoves of the time so maybe made by a UK maker. Monitor?

I've seen ads linking Coleman & Monitor in Australia.

However I'm not saying Coleman didn't manufacture in Australia just that that address could just be an office. What's there today in Google Maps?

I don't know much about Coleman. Is the Syndney Plant a known fact or a theory? I'm not sure from your post what the balance is. Not arguing - just joining the thought process, as similar to things I looked into years ago,

 

I have it by very good authority that there was a Sydney factory. In fact the person that has been explaining things to me is going to be very happy when he wakes up and finds that Sydney Made ad in his inbox.

I think the statement Sydney made is very powerful. The term British Made was often applied in the early days because there were many migrants, well thousands and thousands of them coming to Australia and settling. The Monarchy was huge back in the day.

Later, I think Handi used the term British Made for the same reasons. Of course they were British made. Australia was part of the British Empire.

Coleman using both terms, Australian made and British made, at times covered the patriarchal field.

It was only today I was told there was a Sydney factory. Until I was told that with some provenance and I saw the iron ad, I had never suspected a Sydney factory.

I have long suspected Coleman were manufacturing in Australia up to decades to what was believed. Actually, not suspected but convinced.

My argument in this topic and the previously mentioned ace up my sleeve doesn't prove a word of what I wrote. If I thought it did, I would have posted the ace and been done with it. I needed to know roughly when this lamp was made for what I was told and what I believe to tie in.

Circumstantial evidence is building.

I can't prove a thing. I'd like to hear if it is even possible that my theory is correct or I'm barking mad - again.

 

Have you checked Google Maps - are there buildings at that address old, new, redeveloped?

 

HD

One of the peculiarities of the Austramax is that it is still stamped "Patent Applied For" on the ones made today, so the stamp in itself is no help. In the Reference Gallery, Nils has posted a series of photos and a description of where the stamped logo is placed in a proposed production sequence.

So, Matty, most probably somewhere between 1945 and 1952, which makes it older than me.

Cheers

Tony

 

Matty

On the subject of irons: I suspect, also, that Coleman Irons were made sin Australia quite early (mid-1930s) somewhere. I'm trying to find out about a Tasmanian that is reputed to have a very very big collection of irons!

I've still not found earlier Coleman lantern manufacture than the Adelaide factory in the '50s, so good hunting on the Sydney front.

Ross, Coleman put their logo on some stoves made by others in the UK. There's a couple of references over at CCS.

Cheers

Tony

 

The Coleman 'factory' was in Chiswick although I've forgotten the exact address. I'll have a look later.

I think the parts were actually brought into the country and merely assembled here so that the finished articles qualified as 'British Made', which carried some cachet and would lead to enhanced sales...

 

I think I have reference to Liverpool as well. The UK Solus was I'm sure made by another British maker. I suspect Monitor due to their tie up with Coleman in Aus.

Got some paperwork somewhere. Long time since I've been on this trail.

 

Matty

I've checked the two red-headed Austramaxes I have. One is the stamped "PATPEND" in the Reference Gallery:

http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/9141

The other is a 2/300 which, when I'm back from Brisbane, I should photograph for the Gallery.

Cheers

Tony

 

Ross

I think this is a Coleman-labelled Monitor:

http://classiccampstoves.com/threads/coleman-533e.32091/

Also imported into the Australian market.

Cheers

Tony

 

Ross,

Coleman had a tie in with Monitor with blow lamps and I suspect it was to overcome imports tariffs.

 

Tony,

Until yesterday, if I ever spoke about Austramax or Coleman and history in the same breath again, It would be under torture. Too many scars from previous efforts.

I've not been on the hunt. This topic came about because of some quite incredible news I found out yesterday. The incredible, I haven't revealed yet.

The reason I haven't revealed it is because it was crucial that I tried to find a date of the manufacture of this Red Hooded Austramax. If that date fell within a range of years I hoped it would my longed held contention that Coleman were manufacturing in Australia well before the accepted norm would be circumstantially stronger.

After reading what has been posted and doing some searches, I'm quite convinced the change from 2/300 to 3/300 came about in 1949/50. That dating period works in perfectly for my theory, not because I manipulated it to, because it does of its own accord.

Nils saying the change of model #'s being a mystery to him was like a penny drop moment for me. I hadn't known there was such mystery as to why they changed from 2/300 to 3/300. I don't know if what I said about Austramax using the Coleman plant did in fact bring about the model change but in the large scheme of things, at least to me, it makes sense.

I am a little surprised that my suggestion that Coleman were manufacturing in Sydney, closed down, sold the plant to Austramax etc hasn't been openly laughed off. Far less suggestions of mine have.

 

A related tangent.

This is from a 1949-50 C.J. Thomas (Australia) Catalogue. (courtesy of Jeff Johnson)


Looks Monitor to me.

I also have a 1934 address for Coleman Quick-Lite Co Ltd at Red Hill Road, Hay Mills, Birmingham in 1934. It's on an advert for British made Coleman product - iron, 242 lantern, heaters.

That's same postal address as Monitor.

Is that Monitor making some unique items for Coleman & assembling/making regular Coleman product?

 

Ross

I suspect on the stove front, it was Monitor making products that were badged as Coleman.

The UK Coleman Solus I have looks like the Monitor above, while the Canadian Sous looks like the standard discus with the usual Coleman check-valve pump.

Cheers

Tony

 

Is anyone able to identify what model lamp this is?

 

Well that's the stamp you find on the Australian made 242B or 249. I wouldn't be surprised if they both used the same fount.

 

Nils,

That's correct.

The thing is here, this stamp is on the Red Hooded Austramax. Opposite side to the Austramax stamp.

 

I was wondering why you were mysteriously showing only small parts of the lamp...

Time for a full photo shoot.

Tony

 

Tony,

I don't have the lamp. I was sent the photos.

The photos are of the one lamp. The stamps ARE on that lamp.

I've posted my conclusions of how I believe that stamp got on an Austramax.

If you or anyone else would like to refute my conclusions and draw your own I'd like to hear them.

Remember, my conclusions mean that Coleman had a Sydney factory from at least 1940 and I suspect 1936. That kind of mangles the Coleman timeline we've discussed so many times.

 

Matty

I'm a bit confused: the bottom photograph in this post appears to be a different shaped tank (like the Coleman 249) to the one in the top photograph in this post (like the Austramax tank). Are they supposed to be the same lamp?

Tony

 

Tony,

I've already clearly stated the one lamp is photographed.

 

Matty

Can you get a full lantern picture from each side (Austramax and Coleman)?

Cheers

Tony

 

You will believe it then?

The simple answer is no I wont be displaying any more photos.

It's up to you to consider me a liar and I've made this up. It is a waste of my time and obviously yours and others each and every time I discuss this type of subject.

I swore I would never discuss Austramax and Coleman again and now I'm kicking myself I did. I've done everything but reincarnate Thomas yet I still get less respect than a dead goanna.

Never a word again from me on this subject.

 

Matty

I didn't say I didn't believe you.

Your reaction is absolutely unwarranted, and you do yourself a great disservice.

Tony

 

Here we go again. I'm struggling with the order this is being presented but have no axe to grind on this subject.

I am struggling with how the lamp proves Coleman had a factory in Sydney - even if more pics are posted.

As Matty is out (again) & we accept the pics are from the same lamp maybe someone can explain?

I don't know where you are getting the perception of lack of respect from but posts like that are more likely to make it a reality.

 

Dead Right Ross, here we go again.

I stated quite clearly the photos were one and the same lamp.

Tony then stated he was confused. There was nothing to be confused about, I stated it very clearly, no need for crap. Ask nicely for further pictures, say wow that's interesting but don't do it the round about way.

Ross you just said you fail to see how this proves there was a Coleman factory in Sydney. I said quite clearly from the beginning and in the middle I have NO proof. I said, the circumstantial evidence is building.

Tony, you are the only one that does me a disservice. Simple as that.

 

From 'The Ironmonger Buyers Guide' 1937 we have an advertisment with the following information intended for prospective retailers:-
"Coleman Quik-Lite Co. Ltd., Devonshire Works, Chiswick, London, W4. Phone: Chiswick 5025". The description 'Works' would tend to suggest that something was going on there beyond offices and sales or merely an accommodation address i.e. some kind of production. Items shown are the 4A iron, 242K lantern, 168 lamp and the 6F camp stove.

Also, "Scottish Representative: James M. Duncan Ltd., 92 York Street, Glasgow"

Slightly off-topic in this thread (for which, my apologies) but it may still be useful information in the wider sense...

 

That.

Made me think we were now talking about a different lamp. I'm not used to this sort of dance. I'm not saying anyone else got confused.

I'll rephrase - I'm missing how this suggests Coleman had a factory in Sydney. I'll reread again & see if I can pick up what I'm missing.

If this lamp is as significant as suggested & I was a lamp collector with an interest I'd want to see more pics. You're reading too much into it IMO. I've seen overly self-deprecating comments from you throughout this thread that hinted this would go this way. It's almost like you want it to.

Take a breather & carry on.