Dating a lantern (give it a place on a time line)

Hipolito 502:

 

@Fireexit1
1058
In my opinion it is 10th week 1985

 

I don't understand their logic. If it's 1985, why would it be stamped "58"?

 

1958 was already used ??

 

@Reinhard Thank you. Your proposed date matches the "feel" of the lamp in terms of finish and condition.It has not seen a lot of use and has no rust at all under the hood. It has suffered a small crack in the J tube that has resulted in some soot/discolouration under the hood. otherwise in great condition.

 

@Fireexit1, @george
No, the date has nothing to do with the condition of the lamp. I'm trying to explain everything now.
Petromax, Aida and Standard have had 4-digit stamped numbers since 1961 until the end of lamp production in Germany. The last numbers I saw point to 1970.But I also saw 500 HK lamps for the Bundeswehr from 1971.(Date read off the nameplate). During this time this code applies. An example for each year:
4513=week 45 1961 Wednesday
1221=week 12 1962 Monday
0334=week 3 1963 Thursday
2045=week 20 1964 Friday
3252=week 32 1965 Tuesday
3962=week 39 1966 Tuesday
2771=week 27 1967 Monday
1685=week 16 1968 Friday
3793=week 37 1969 Wednesday
4004=week 40 1970 Thursday
Attention, at this time people also worked on Saturdays. There are also Saturday lamps for this time. For example:
4276=week 42 1967 Saturday

Do you really understand everything up to here?
If you can answer the question with yes I will then continue with the year 1974.

Regards Reinhard

 

@Reinhard I can see that the first two digits give a week number. I can also see that the last digit gives the day of the week, starting from Monday being number one. The third number gives you the last number of the year.
so 45xx = week number 45.
so xxx1 = Day 1 (Monday)
so xx1x = last digit of year (1)
so how do you tell 1961 from 1971 or 1981 ?

Interesting !
many thanks
Chris

 

The move to Hipolito in Portugal took place in the early 1970s.All machines were taken. F. Heinze played the most important role.
I have never seen 4-digit tank numbers from 1971, 1972 and 1973.Production with the old machines from Germany began in 1974. You can see it clearly from the components of the lamps. Now there were 4-digit tank numbers again. But it's a different code. The code of the sixties no longer fits.
What I am writing now is my personal opinion. It is not yet officially regognized.
I read 2 codes from the 4-digit tank numbers. One code for the 70/80s and one for the 90s. Unfortunately, I also have to find out that there were disagreements in 1989 and 1991. In this two years you need to read the year of manufacture one way or another. I was criticized and told that it is no longer understandable for a rationally thinking person. But I think they just didn't take it that seriously in Portugal with the 4-digit numbers. You can also see it from the fact that only the year and week were specified in the cods.I also have the impression that the week number could only ever be the first week of a batch. But I am firmly convinced that the years are very accurate. You can see that in how the lamps have changed.
At Hipolito from 1974 to 1999? the following lamps are made :Hipolito, Lanterne D-206, D-306, D-506 , Petromax, Geniol, Aida, Petrolite, Optimus or Optimus parts.
And this are my Cods for the 70 /80s and the 90s. Now decide for yourself.
4347=week 43 1974
2057=week 20 1975
3667=week 36 1976
4177=week 41 1977
2587=week 25 1978
0697=week 6 1979
2508=week 25 1980
0718=week 7 1981
1228=week 12 1982
3838=week 38 1983
4248=week 42 1984
1058=week 10 1985
1768=week 17 1986
3778=week 37 1987
2288=week 22 1988
0589=week 5 1989???!!!

Code of the 90s
9019=1990 week 19
0591=1991 week 5 ???!!!
9124=1991 week 24
9250=1992 week 50
9349=1993 week 49
9435=1994 week 35
9508=1995 week 8
9631=1996 week 31
9824=1998 week 24

Why were the numbers punched like that?
So that you can't confuse it with the code of the sixties. Not even with the Saturday lamps of the sixties that ended with 6 at the back.
In 1989 and 1991, Hipolito employers did not pay attention to the logic of the numeric code.
Regards Reinhard

 

Boy, you have really done your homework, Reinhard
One question: why are none of the Aida Dutch civil defense lanterns like the 1250 not dated? It just has MD-41 on the bottom of the font
@Reinhard

 

Interesting postulation Reinhard. And it bears scrutiny well. As was suggested earlier the more examples logged here the better. Is there any other way to detect the age of the lamp such as design or feature changes or are they all the same ?
Until a better hypothesis comes along I am buying yours..

Chris

 

We have discussed this topic here in Germany many times, among many different collectors. At first most of us didn't really believe Reinhard, so we started collecting as many numbers as we could find; hence this thread. Until recently, the numbers were added to an Excel list, which can be found here.
Finally, all collectors who were involved in our discussions were convinced. In fact, this was the point at which we stopped collecting these numbers, at least until someone finds evidence that Reinhard's theory cannot be valid. But so far there are no contradictions.

We also found a doctoral thesis entitled "CASA HIPÓLITO – HISTÓRIA, MEMÓRIAS E PATRIMÓNIO DE UMA FÁBRICA TORRIENSE" about the Casa Hipólito company, which has also been published as a book. Unfortunately, it is only available in Portuguese and the author, Mr. Joaquim Manuel Jorge Moedas Duarte, has not yet agreed to the publication of a translation in English German we have made. It doesn't contain so many chapters about the production of lanterns and stoves, but nevertheless some information of interest. Afterwards, via Jürgen Breidenstein, who is the owner of the Hytta shop in Germany and also the responsible admin of the German Hytta Forum, we also had contact with a former employee of Casa Hipólito, who confirmed the information and gave us even more information and evidence on the lantern and stove manufacturing.

Regards, Martin

 

That's easy for you to say...

 

Using so many names seems to be a bad habit of the Iberian languages....
Even more complicated it was for me to translate this thesis, as I really don't know the Portuguese language. But with the help of DeepL everything went fine. This machine is really smart!

 

Hats off to you for taking the time, trouble and effort to translate Mr. Joa etc., etc's thesis. I'm sure it'll prove useful to collectors...

 

Well I can read Portugese more easily than German (not saying much) , so I shall read it with interest. I can think of no better solution than Reinhards, and as this has been confirmed by an employee it is as near to certain as can ever be.

 

Just to make it clear: This employee never confirmed the correctness of the datecodes, but many other information we gained about Casa Hipólito, such as the transition and the use of the manufacturing tools from Graetz in Altena with some dates, produced goods, connections to the company Fama, etc.

 

Dear martin,
Where can we find this (original) information ?

 

We had some correspondence via E-Mail, and it had not been disclosed to the public.

 

Thank you for the clarification.
Chris

 

I see.

 

I have a Hipolito H502 which is stamped on the base 0858.
As I read the foregoing that would suggest it is week 08 1985. Am I right?

Given that I bought it not much later than 1995 it surprises me that it was only 10 years old at the time. It looked like it should be older but maybe it had a hard life?.

 

Hello everybody,
I would now like to inform the English - speaking collectors about my latest findings. Pressure lamps were still being manufactured in Altena/Germany in 1972.The code of the sixties was not changed. It was also used for 1970,1971 and 1972.This means that the years 1961 and 1971 as well as the years 1962 and 1972 must first be examined for structural differences. Then you can determine the exact age with the code of the sixties. As you can see, not everything was done correctly and logically in Germany.

I also noticed that 1978(made in Portugal) was punched in two different ways. Like the years 1989 and 1991.

Regards Reinhard

 

Thanks for the update @Reinhard

 

Awesome work, Reinhard! RxR

 

Thank you so much, Reinhard!

 

H-502
2689
So would it be week 26, 1998
It looks older, I find the coating is very difficult to clean up, it has yellow Blotches which I can't decide if they are on the coating surface, or gaps in the coating With brass showing through..

 

@rayw
Your Hipolito is from 1989.
If it was from 1998 the code should like this : 9826
Regards Reinhard

 

Thank you @Reinhard interesting stuff here, I find it's one of the better lamps and runs quite well.

 

This is quite interesting.

I have several Petromax lanterns that were easily dated using the code of the sixties, but my three
Hipolitos could until now - potentially be from any time in the apx. 30 years of production in Portugal.

My Hipolitos are stamped 1189, 5358 and 8990.

1189 = Week 11 1989 (Using @Reinhard code - which makes sense)
5358 = Week 53 1985 (Here things get slightly muddy - a 1985 calendar shows only 52 weeks that year, but it could reasonably translate to the 30. or 31. of december, as week numbering vary with time / country)
8990 = 1989 or 1990 (I take it, but what about the week number then?)

 

This dating is certainly interesting. Too bad I don't have a Hipolito or any Petromaxes from the 70s and later.