Distinguish between European made petromax an asian made

Not if the 'Pelam' stove I've seen is typical.

 

Hi Wim,

I agree about the quality of hood - very much like an Anchor.

I notice that, at least the bottom edge of the tank is like that on an original Original Petromax and not flared like the one in the image which I posted.


Henry.

 

I think the message is very simple:

Don't buy a Chinese made Petromax!

 

Well I doubt anyone here ever will. We've all got at least one good quality, reliable lantern which we can use anytime we wish.
Indeed, many of us have more than one which can lead to the dilemma of which one to light this time, but that's another story.

Henry.

 

Well, I've had a few come through my hands, but they were all bought for what they came with rather than the lantern itself.

I still have a Heinz chinese made Petromax which cost me the princely sum of £7 or thereabouts that I bought solely because it had a Protector-Reflector fitted. I stripped everything useful and resurrected a German Petromax in the process. The tinware went in the junk pile.

HD

I should really find a rusted out Anchor to rebuild the tinware around.

 

I've never had a Chinese Petromax but other lanterns from China have come my way if cheap enough.
Like yourself, I've kept the good bits and binned the rest.

Good to here that you finally got a reflector - protector.

Henry.

 

Oh, I have three reflector - protectors now, but I'm always looking for another.

HD

 

Could anyone enlighten me with reg to Britelyt - where do they stand in terms of manufacturing vs Pelam?
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/britelyt-revolutionizes-the-liquid-fueled-lantern-marketplace-with-the-debut-of-true-multi-fuel-capabilities-which-allows-users-to-light-heat-and-cook-virtually-anywhere-230214251.html

 

Exactly the same because they probably manufacture their parts in the same factory. After their loss in the court of their law suit against Pelam there are some changes of the ventilation holes but my guess is that they still manufactures the parts at Kaiping-Silveray in China.
I do not think you will have any higher quality from Britelyt.
Only a high price.

Michael

 

Are BriteShyte still recommending the use of gasoline and similar fuels in their (kerosene technology) lanterns?

 

From their website:

The BriteLyt 829/500CP Rapid XL, the new world standard! The new BriteLyt family of high powered lanterns represent the biggest innovation in over 100 years for liquid fueled lantern technology. We started from scratch to design the most durable, functional and innovative lantern the world has ever seen.

Constructed of a thicker, solid brass material, featuring a number of internationally patent pending improvements, the new BriteLyt lanterns are a great fit for camping, hunting, fishing boating or simply adorning your outdoor living space.

 
Multiple Fuel Operation Guidelines

IMPORTANT:
The listed preheat times are approximate. Variables such as altitude, humidity and temperature will have an impact.

 

DO NOT BURN HOMEMADE/CUSTOM FUELS!

 

Burning fuels that are not listed in our instruction manual should be done at your own risk. BriteLyt assumes no responsibility for the burning of non-listed fuels. Burning fuels not listed in this manual can cause permanent and irreversible damage to your lantern.

 

Some fuels require you to mix multiple fuel types in order to avoid damaging the lantern. Please refer to the instructions below for more information.

 

Be sure to read the INSTRUCTION MANUAL in its entirety before attempting to use any BriteLyt lantern.


Gasoline Type Fuels
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 10 to 35 seconds
Examples: Coleman™ Fuel, Gasoline, White Gas, Paint Thinner, Lighter Fluid, Mineral Spirits without Oil.

 

Oil Based Fuels
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 15 to 45 sec
Examples: Kerosene, Lamp Oil, JP Fuels™, Citronella Oil, Mineral Spirits with Oil.

 

Heavy Oil Base Fuels (50/50 Mixture Recommended)
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 45 sec to 2 min.
Examples: Diesel Fuel or Bio-Diesel.

 

Below are recommendations for mixing fuels in order to improve efficiency and safety. 
The recommended mixture is 50/50 but can be adjusted to match your conditions.

 

Kerosene and Gasoline Type Fuel
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 15 to 30 sec
Total Run Time Approximately: 10 to 12 hours
Examples: Kerosene mixed with any of the following fuels: Coleman™, Paint Thinner, All Alcohol Fuels.

 

Diesel and Gasoline Type Fuel
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 20 to 40 sec.
Total Run Time Approximately: 10 to 15 hours.
Examples: Diesel mixed with any of the following fuels: Coleman™, Paint Thinner, All Alcohol Fuels.


Biodiesel and Gasoline Type Fuel
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 45 sec to 2 min
Total Run Time Approximately: 10 to 25 hours.
Examples: Diesel mixed with any of the following fuels: Coleman™, Paint Thinner, All Alcohol Fuels.


Motor Oil and Gasoline Type Fuel
Pre-Heat Time approximately: 1 1/2 to 3 min and may have to use Alcohol cup and not preheater (part 35). (Must test preheater if it does not work use heat cup part 35)

 

Strange that; they tell you not to burn homemade/custom fuels and then supply the recipes for several homemade/custom fuels...

When they designed this lantern "from scratch", did they incorporate any features designed to make it safe to burn gasoline type fuels such as a locking NRV with no rubber parts and a pump venting above the fuel?

 

Haksnut,
I hope you do not believe all the lies and other "BS" that Britelyt tells on their web site.
Britelyt started to sell Chinese Petromax lanterns in the US and they stopped doing that and started to sell "their" own lantern with a bunch of "new" patents.

The fact is that the parts where and probably still is made in the same factory as Petromax.
They started to bad mouth the quality of the Petromax lantern and even the German build ones. They stated that their "USA"-build one where much better.

When people wrote on forums that it is not safe to use gasoline in that type of construction they treatend to sue them in court.

There must have been a very clear reason that made the German Bundes Wehr to forbid the use of gasoline in their lanterns somewhere in the 50's.

When they started out their business they where located in a trailer park but pretended to be much larger.

Unfortunatly I have not been able to get my hands on any Britelyt lantern so I can strip it down to see all these "new" features they claim to have.

Michael

 

Well they "started to make the bla bla" but did they finish it too ;-)

I guess we never will know what the real reason was for the German army to switch from gasoline usage. Unless someone finds a original document.
On the other side of the scale: the Swiss army only used gasoline petromax design lamps.

As David states: the pump ending above the fuel and shut off valve are two primary features for a safe lantern. Regardless the fuel.

 

Not quite, Wim. What I said was that those two features are necessary on a gasoline lantern. You extended that to all fuels which isn't what I wrote nor what I know to be true.

If what you say is correct, then all Tilley and Bialaddin/Vapalux lamps and lanterns must be unsafe to use - which obviously isn't the case...

 

As I understand it some years ago there was legislation in Germany which prohibited the use of Gasoline fueled domestic appliances. I am not aware that it was a specific safety issue in the armed forces. The Bundeswehr just complied with the new law and stopped using gasoline. ::Neil::

 

Here they have an "interactive" img with the new features:
http://www.britelyt.com/lanterns/tour/500cp-lantern.html

 

Watching the assembly and lighting procedures shows a preference for turning the lantern off by releasing the vent screw on the filler/pressure gauge. At no time has the mention of gasoline as a fuel spoken of - though it is listed as a fuel. Clearly if gasoline was used, venting gasoline vapour in the vicinity of a still glowing mantle is a recipe for disaster.

 

Thanks, Haavar - very interesting. I see no mention of a redesigned NRV or pump venting system. And as Derek points out, the danger of venting petrol / gasoline vapour in proximity to a hot mantle is significant.

So they designed this lantern "from scratch" but ended up calling it an 829 - now there's a co-incidence. Maybe they think we came down with the last shower of rain...

 

Britelyt have slightly changed the shape of the tank so that the captive fittings for the vapouriser, pre-heater, fixing screw, filler and pump are now soldered on from the inside of the tank.

That, and the addition of a 'patent pending' protection plate as well as some minor cosmetic changes seems to be the sum total of the redesign for the 'new' XL.

The protector plate maybe does make it safer, but as far as I can see moving the solder from the outside to the inside just makes it a pain to repair.

If they really wanted to improve safety they would have had the tank brazed, fitted a positive shut-off and a locking NRV with a snorkel.

HD

 

I wrote earlier in this topic that it "must have been a very clear reason" that the German Bundes Wehr had "forbid" the use of gasoline in their pressure lanterns.
I have now found where I picked up the information from.
It is not an actual document but a research by Neil A McRea, who I think is a well known person in this hobby.

http://www.petromax.nl/petromax_tale/petromax_myth.html

Take it for what it is.

Michael

 

Neil McRae goes by the Username Mackburner and you will see he has already commented of this thread regarding the Bundeswehr prohibition on the use of gasoline. Nevertheless the points made in the linked article are still valid.

 

OK. I did not know that.
I only wanted to give the link here for those who want to read it.

Why did he comment on his own report?

I have not stated in any way of what the reason was only relaterad to what I had previously read somewhere.

By the way, if there is a law in Germany that forbid gasoline to be used in household appliances, why is the Jewel gasoline stove still manufactured and sold in Germany along with Colman stoves and lanterns, Optimus, Primus, MSR and other gasoline products.

Anyone that really knows?

Michael

 

The article in question is very old and as new information comes to light details may change.

His comment earlier in the thread was an answer to the question of why Gasoline was prohibited by the Bundeswehr according to currently available information.

As for your last question, most of these appliances come with directions not to use them indoors, it may be as simple as that.

 

Direction of use and a law are two different things.

Any German member that really know?

Michael

 

Well if the law applies to the use of appliances then the person using them indoors is the one breaking the law.

Directions telling people not to use gasoline appliances indoors are a way for manufacturers to avoid liability.

Yes, you need someone who is familiar with German legislation to confirm this.

HD

 

HD.
Yes that what I was asking for so we really can know because there seems to be only believes here.

Michael

 

That article was written in 2003 and we have learnt a lot since then. It is a sad fact that when you publish information you can be pretty sure that there will be a diminishing veracity and some will subsequently be proved wrong. This is true here. It is true that the Bundeswehr banned the use of gasoline but not true that it was because some of their lanterns had exploded.

That year was when we started to look at Britelyt and their instructions. We did have some initial correspondence but it quickly became apparent that they had a dangerous childlike faith in what they were selling and some very strange ideas of the history of Petromax.

I asked them specifically about the safety aspects of using gasoline and the reply was interesting. They said they had employed an engineer to report on the use of gasoline in their lantern. I don't have it to hand right now but essentially the engineer reported that the lantern would indeed run on gasoline. However he was not asked to comment on any aspect of safety so his report is correct because we know very well the lanterns will work well on gasoline but since he was not asked to give a safety report he did not do so. The company attitude was that since they had this report it was reasonable to recommend gasoline as a fuel for their Petromax lanterns. When I suggested that they should no longer recommend gasoline as a fuel the correspondence started to become heated and I gave up trying to educate the owners. Since then I have made it clear to anyone who will listen that fooling around with alternative fuels is not always safe particularly when using gasoline in any appliance designed for kerosene only. ::Neil::

 

Thanks Neil for your information.
As you might have seen I have nerver said anything about exploding lanterns or the reason why BW stopped using gasoline only that they did of some reason.
If you have something that works and do not have any problem with it why stop using it.
Gasoline in a Petromax type of lantern is not safe, that can we probably say without any question.

Michael

 

Problem is we don't know for sure what the reason is/was that the BW did ban the use of gasoline.
But a 2 person tent can be heated very well and when warm you stop the lantern by releasing the pressure. I am pretty sure you can blow up such a tent very well.
Using them in not well ventilated bunkers and other army related structures, well, can cause a problem too. The fumes of leaded gasoline are not good to inhale, liability around the corner so to speak.

But then, the Swiss army used gasoline and they have tents and bunkers to..