Hi. Can anybody tell me what the outlet spigot/valve on the side of this #143 Calcia Club John Lucas Ltd lamp is used for? I have had a look at a lot of other lamps online and also looked at patents but cannot determine its purpose. It is not on any other model #143 lamps I have seen online.
@Bill Wolf It’s an outlet to supply acetylene via tubing to a rear carbide lamp. When a rear lamp isn’t used there should be a screw-on cap to prevent gas escaping.
If you look at other Calcias it can be found on the elbow of the gas pipe leading up the burner. I am guessing this then doubled up as access to unblock the pipe, but was probably faster/easier to make.
I know this is an older thread, but I thought it would be the best place for my question. I just picked up a Lucas Calcia Cadet carbide bike lamp. It is 90% there and I'm going to do a 90% restoration (or maybe 100%). It was all nickel plated but most the water tank plating has been polished away. The carbide chamber plating is pretty good, as is the lens ring. I've already resurrected a Justrite miner's lamp and now I've been bitten by the bug and will probably do more. My grand-dad was a coal miner from central Pennsylvania. We used to play with his old lamp when we were kids (we made carbide cannons too). I'm going to deal with the plating, either my first attempt at nickel plating, or do the black with nickel trim. My real question is the burner / nozzle. It's a single nozzle, incorrect burner with a strange corkscrew thread that was jammed down the gas supply tube. It works, but I want to find the correct two nozzle burner. Anyone know where I can find one? I've looked on several sites with no luck. I may end up making one if I had the dimensions, nozzle orifice size, etc. I may have to buy a 2nd lamp with the correct burner to use as a template. I'm also looking for any PDF of the original owners sheet / exploded view, etc. I may look for patent papers for that. I'll post a photo later. Thanks, Stu, Los Alamos, NM.
I don’t know your skills/resources but a carbide burner is a precision device, with a brass mount (incorporating the ‘fast’ threads you describe as a ‘strange corkscrew thread’) and a steatite (soapstone) element incorporating fine (0.18mm) jet orifices - usually two. The soapstone insulates the acetylene generated from the heat of the flame (important, since the gas is unstable, presenting an inherent explosion risk). The ‘corkscrew thread’ is another safety feature, matched by similar threads in the acetylene outlet pipe. If acetylene generation is excessive (water drip rate too rapid) pressure above the calcium carbide builds up, presenting an explosion risk. The ‘fast’ threads are then meant to disengage, the burner is ejected from the outlet pipe and pressure is rapidly released. Regarding burners, cycle lamps had low acetylene generation output. Small in size, small water and calcium carbide reservoirs and moderate light output to ensure a journey could be completed without running out of fuel. Burners of 5-7 litres (volume of gas generated in an hour) were the norm, compared to the 22-litre or more output of industrial lamps, such as THIS one. John
Thanks for the information, John. I did notice that the burner on my Justrite appeared to have a ceramic insert with the extremely fine orifice. I figured that it was needed to help insulate the heat from the brass burner body and to keep a consistent jet orifice. I've read stories where folks just jammed a pin, or drill bit down the hole and ruined the burner. First do no harm. It's just that the burner on my Lucas lamp is one I've never seen before. Every photo I've seen had the burner with two jets, like earlier in this post. I guess my desire to possibly make a more "stock" one might be futile. I'll keep looking for a correct burner, unless some came with the burner I have. I should post some photos. In the mean time, I'll happy just getting the Lucas looking better than it does now, and fully functional with the burner I have. Do you know where I can get photos of the stock 2-jet burner for my Lucas Calcia Cadet pulled from the gas tube? I like collecting period documentation for my hobby projects. BTW, I restore / resurrect all sorts of equipment. I have restored 2 old British Seagull outboard motors (came with my little West Wight Potter sailboat that I found stored in a barn for 17 years). I also restore old electronics (tube radios and test equipment). My journey into carbide lamps started with memories of my grandfather who worked as coal miner many years ago. My brother still has his 1930-something Autolite lamp. We played with it when were kids (mid 1960's). I like all sorts of "old" technology. I recently restored an original US Civil Defense 350 watt AC alternator/generator from 1951(has a 4hp Kohler 4-cycle engine). It was used in fallout shelters during the 50's. I'm an engineer by trade, but come from a family of mechanics, electricians, and other tradesmen. My father was a machinist for Pratt & Whitney (WWII through the US Apollo moon program). I was blessed by being the youngest of 7 with a garage of Machinist's tools to grow up with. I love these web sites where experienced folks can pass on their wisdom to those of us who want to learn. Wisdom from my dad: "never stop learning". Keep up the great work. Thanks.
As requested: Not visible in the photos is a Numeral "4" - probably referring to the burner size stamped on one of the flats. The tapered base tapers over .300" from .421" to .400" I used acupuncture needles to gently clear the blockages in the holes. CA1165: Acetylene gas lamp burners - Acetylene Burners & Tube - Lamp Accessories - Lamps - Vintage Car Parts The site above may give some ideas, they do not have a direct equivalent but you might find smilar in the USA.
This thread refers to my new gasket solution for my clacia: Advice please : Making a rubber seal "thinner"
My first try at photos. Thanks for the photos, John. If my upload worked, this is what I have. The burner is: BRAY 364 CETO 14 LITERS. You can see that the burner and the tube in my lamp both have theads. The thread pitch seems to be OK, since I get a good seal with the burner finger tight. Also, I am missing some parts. I'm missing the inner reflector ring. I'm also missing the threaded cone (with holes) that connects to the water tube. I believe it holds the plate that holds the felt filter. Any idea if the threads on the water tube are SAE, Metric or British Standard Whitworth (BSW)? Thanks.
Should I have started a new thread, or was it OK to add my issues to this one? They are related since I'm working on a Lucas Calcia Cadet No. 133.
These are the threads on the water tube I was talking about. I seem to have all of the other parts, including the lens, lens clips, a plate that I think holds a cone shaped spring on the bottom of the carbide tank. I also have the spring-loaded shock mount, shock spring, and thumb screw. I don't have the cone spring inside the carbide tank.
So looking at your picture above, there should be some felt/horse hair. Ontop of this a plate screws onto that thread in the centre that you can see. Then a ring gasket is fitted.. once all that is in place the threaded cone wiht holes in it is also threaded on top of the threaded plate, and around this goes a wire spring and then last of all a loose circular/cupped plate that pushes down (this holds the carbide rocks in place and stops it jumping up and down as the bike goes over bumps etc) You can see all of these in the earlier pictures in this thread. The bray burner is not an unusual burner and yours may be OK. But I have not seen a lucas bicyicle lamp that uses the bray burner like yours, which I think is a single flame. Looking again at your earlier pictures it may be that your lamp was modified to use the bray threaded burners. These threaded burners were used in the Crestella premier miners lamp as well as the railway version of the same. I have a suspicion that the flame from your burner will be too tall inside the lamp. The 364 part of your burner part no refers to the shape/model no - the 14 refers to 14 liters of gas per hour. I also note you make no mention of a reflector ? This is a polished aluminium dish that sits behind the flame and focusses the light forward.
Hi, thanks or the additional information. Perhaps I should post a photo of all of my parts. I've rebuilt a Justrite and Autolite miner's lamp, so I'm aware of the felt filter. I've also made a new gasket. The old one was cork and had become hard and brittle. I have the aluminum reflector. It was pretty beat up and pitted. Also, one of the three tabs on the plate in the back of the lamp body that holds the reflector was bent, but not broken. A previous owner drilled two small holes in the reflector and used a piece of copper bell wire to hold it. I've straitened and smoothed the reflector, sanded the pits out, and gave it a polish. Not a perfect job, but it will work. About the jet. Are you saying that the Cadet lamp should have had the smooth gas tube bore where the jet connects? The threads down in the bore looked to be machined. I too was worried that the flame will be too tall. All I can do is try it and see then decide what to do. Finally, I have a wood lathe and a small bench metal lathe. I'm going to try my hand at spinning the reflector ring. I have tons of thin aluminum plate to practice with. I also have some brass. I know I'm spending way too much time on this, but resurrecting dead machines and equipment is one of my passions. I get just as much enjoyment out of the process as I do using the stuff. Thanks again for the ideas. Stu, Los Alamos, NM.
Was this lamp used as-is for illumination? Did it have a reflector? Or was it used for some other purpose. It's huge compared to the smaller ones.
Hi Stu - not sure what the question refers to - perhaps a photo didnt work ? in answer to your question about the bray threaded burner - I have never seen one on a lucas bicicle lamp, they have all had the twin flame type push in burner. It may be that your holder was "re-purposed" from another lamp or even made to order.
@Fireexit1 perhaps @sbbloom69 is referring to the carbide generator that @presscall showed ?? I didn’t know about the push fit burners on Lucas
Ah yes thanks PB - well a 21 or 22 liter burner of that shape could be found in large car headlamps. The Bray "Elata" burner is one such example
Elta, Chris, and the elaborate steatite burner ‘baskets’ suggest a household lamp use where they were meant to aid low light level output without carbon forming at the burner tips. It could be used without a reflector, as lamps meant to hang from a hook in mine workings would to provide wide general illumination. Its patent drawing shows an alternative, however, a lantern housing. This larger column carbide lamp would most probably have had a reflector. … likely to have been of this pattern
Excellent - yes Elta - I must clean my keyboard as some keys keep sticking down I have seen the same burner in car headlamps. We have the London to Brighton veteran car rally each year - and last year I spent a long time looking into headlamps (much to the despair/amusment) of my wife).
That made me laugh! Just the sort of thing I’d do. I’m sure you’re right about the use of the Bray whoppers in car headlamps - Elta maybe but their Luta certainly, without the fancy extensions. While low outputs were usual for bicycle lamps, the dizzy speeds (!) of early automobiles and the absence of street lighting out of town would have encouraged higher outputs and hefty acetylene generators to cope with the demands of 20-30 litre illumination from each headlamp (if the owner went to the expense of two) and one or two rear lights. Here’s a beaut of a video of a short trip in a 1914 Chevvy equipped with acetylene headlamps and kerosene wick side lamps.
Hi. I've been busy with other things that kept me away from the lamp. Saturday, I tried testing my Lucas Calcia Cadet in earnest. My previous test was just to see if it would work. Very small flame. I examined the burner (the Bray 14 liter, modified burner). I noticed that it actually had 2 jets. One was clogged. I soaked and cleaned and cleared the jet (orifice). When I went to test it Saturday, I still had low flame. Then the bottom plate of the carbide canister caught fire. I was able to turn off the water and put it out. 1/3 of the bottom canister rim was cracked around a previous poor solder repair. I ultrasonic cleaned the can and was able to make a solid but very ugly repair on the bottom. It is now sealed. I used an acid-core flux, acid-core lead solder and my 80 watt soldering iron. I re-cleaned the tank. I ran another test. This time, the pressure was satisfactory. But now it's obvious that the 14 liter Bray burner is much too big for this bike lamp. Also, since i'm missing the cone-shaped funnel that drips the water from the valve outlet, operation is very poor. Every time a water drop hit the carbide, I could hear a loud hiss, and the burner flame would go from about 3/4 of an inch to 4 inches. (I previously made a good-sealing gasket and there are no other leaks). It was like clockwork: drip, hiss, big flame, die down, repeat. Also, one of the orifices is still clogged. The flame come out only one side at a 45 degree angle. When I increased the drip rate, the flame got almost 6 inches long. Not good. My conclusion is that the Bray 364 / 14 Liter burner is just way too big. I suppose with a much smaller burner, the pressure in the carbide tank will regulate better and be more consistent. Or perhaps I absolutely have to have the water cone screwed to the water valve outlet to help regulate how much water gets to the carbide, maybe both. But, at least I got the carbide tank sealed. So, my lamp was modified to take the screw in Bray burner. I'm convinced it probably never worked like this, or perhaps someone who sold it on Ebay just found a Bray that kind-of fit and stuck it on. Anyone know what the correct burner / size should be for this lamp (Lucas Calcia Cadet 133)? Either what the "correct" 2-jet Lucas burner should be, or what a Bray-equivalent would be? There's a guy on Ebay selling all kinds of Bray burners. I don't know if the original Lucas burner was rated for Liters like the Bray or just with an orifice size. Either way, I'd like to experiment. If I have to unsolder the Bray burner receptacle and replace it I could do that. Finally, when a Bray burner is rated for "14 LITERS", is it really a flow-rate, like Liters per Hour or Liters per Minute? Stu Los Alamos, NM
Hi Stu. Yes the Bray burners seem to be found with a single number denoting the size or a liter/hour rate - or both. I would snag the finest acupuncture needle you can and gently unblock the jet. The two flames should collide and make a flat wide flame. This stops it going too high. Any carbide lamp will generate a flame too big if the gas pressure goes up. You will also hear the carbide gas (acetylene) being pushed back up past the drip needle and through the water (safety feature). I would get that jet working properly before dropping more cash on the project. You can test it with the whole reflector/lens/housing removed.
Ha John - so now I have some skin in the game. I have another "luxor" cycle lamp that has a 14 liter bray 315 burner. As of yet untested.
While there’s no doubt that a cycle lamp like the Calcia or French Luxor can power a larger output burner I question the wisdom of doing so. The small enclosure and consequent proximity of enclosure, glass and reflector can easily result in thermal overload. Your Luxor, if a cycle lamp and not for a motorcycle, could have been fitted with a larger burner but it doesn’t mean it should have been! This Luxor motorcycle headlamp has two burners with a switching valve to power a larger burner or both (for additional light output). The larger dimensions keeps the headlamp components from overheating due to radiant heat and the separate generator is of course entirely isolated from conducted heat speeding up gas generation, which is another hazard of too powerful a burner in a cycle lamp with the water/carbide tanks built in.
Well, more success. I found some 0.2mm accupuncture needles. I had to pull the screen out of the Bray 14l burner. I was able to get both orifices clear. Also, my lamp didn’t come with the tube screwed to the water valve. I found a spring to serve the same purpose (spreads the water drops down to the bottom of the carbide chamber). With the cleared burner and more gentle water supply, the flame is steady. I the attached photos, I darkened my camera exposure to show the flame. It’s really quite bright. Also, I DO have the aluminum reflector, it’s just not attached. With the Bray burner now working, with both orifices flowing, I get a round fan flame as the two flames meet. Question: should the flame fan orient front to back or side to side. Side to side would keep the flame near the focal point of the reflector.
I have the fan of the flame facing forward as they gives more light forward. The felt pad you have should be underneath the screw-on cover. keep going !
