Nagel Chase Arc Lamp ID Help

Yes, Brian. The writing looks fine to me.

Thanks for the further explanation.

Tony

 

Here from my October 1922 Nagel Chase price list is the No. 248 Mixing Casting offered for sale.
It is listed under accessories for three and four mantle outside arcs.




Best,

Brian

 

So,

This appears to be Nagel Chase System Arc Lamp No. 98 four mantle Outside Arc for gasoline w/ optionable mixing casting.

Would these lamps sport both the glass and mica globe at the same time as shown in the catalogs ? and if so how would the mica globe be held in place ? I see something called a mica globe tripod on the sales sheet?

Kindly,

Brian

 

I'm not sure this will add that much, but it is an illustration from a 1915-16 Nagel-Chase catalogue. Similar, but not identical, to the ones posted by Matty and Neil.




Cheers

Tony

 

I would suspect your lamp would indeed have a mica and globe.

Lamps using the air gap are not unusual. There are many, many examples of such lamps certainly in hollow wire lamps and Gloria lamps. I'm not into lanterns but I think Petromax type lanterns have an air gap that can be adjusted. I'm basing that on things I may have read over the years on this forum backed up by a poor memory - so don't hold me to it.

I'm really puzzled by how your system works. One thing you haven't shown or I have missed it is the tube that hangs vertically from the burner. It has the globe holder on it.

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying there is a hole for a pricker that is on, in or near the burner. I would have expected a pricker at the 247 Mixing Casing because that is where I expect the gas to be created and the jet to be.

For instance, in Arc lamps with an overhead generator. The gas is created in the generator. The gas then mixes with air and breaches the gap between the jet and the gas inlet tube and enters into the tube that carries the mixed air and gas down to the burner. It is a fair trip for the air/gas mix to travel. The jet is on the end of the generator and that is where pricking would be done. I'm trying desperately to think of another lamp that has two prickers that seems to be the case with this lamp. That is - if I am understanding you correctly.

I wish I could draw like you. I got 2.5 out of 10 for the last stick man that I drew.

 

Brian,

I forgot to mention this earlier. I can't answer your question. I have a dozen or more Nagel Chase hollow wires that include pendants like the 150 and others. None of my lamps have the mica or ever had the mica to my knowledge.

Neil's lamp that I previously posted in this topic does have a mica. It would be pertinent to ask Neil for advice on the mica.

 

Tony,

Seems that you have found the hanger design which Matty could not locate in his catalogs. This probably helps in dating the lamp to 1915 -1916.

I think this is possibly early production for Nagle-Chase.

An additional note;
I see by 1922 Nagel Chase catalog has shortened the name which is proudly displayed on is on this Arc lamp.
The lamp reads;


The
Wizard Arc
The Nagel- Chase Mfg Co.
Chicago USA


By 1922 this has been shortened to just Wizard .



I would like to thank all who have helped identify this early lamp.

Neil in England
Matty in Oz
Tony in Tazzy

This has been fun!

Best to all,

Brian

 

That would be my feeling too.

 

Matty,

There is no pricker on this lamp.

I do not think there ever was one on the lamp now.

The burner assembly has a hole drilled in it's center casting where a pricker could pass through for the no system type which have a hollow rod containing the generator and pricker. Probably the off the shelf standard set up was with generator/pricker tube.


My opinion is that;
When the No. 248 Mixing casting was ordered by the purchaser, the generator/ pricker assembly would be eliminated, since the Mixing casting makes a 90 degree bend just above the mantle casting and enters the Jet Mixing chamber.

Because of this the Mixing Casting eliminated the need for a hollow pricker tube / generator so a solid steel rod is used instead. The only way a pricker could be used to access the jet inside the mixing chamber would be one of those hand held prickers that could be pushed into the jet through the opening where the air gap bolt is located.

I note that the Mixing chamber is only offered in 1922 for three and four mantle Arc lamps so possibly the jet hole is larger than the smaller lamps and the volume of gas and air tend to keep it from plugging up?

If I could take it apart I could then see how all this exactly works.

Best,

Brian

 

That tells me all I need to know, thanks.

This topic has been fun and it has been great getting to know a Nagel Chase lamp I hadn't known before.

 

If only we had of seen that most recent photo you posted from the start. From the photos I'd seen, I'd imagined that the dropper that the ceiling hanger is atop of, was bent due to an accident. That was based on the available catalogue images I have that does not show this system.

 

This is a bit of a puzzle but one thing is for sure it is not a CG lamp. A 1/8" bore feed tube would never carry the volume of gas required to feed 4 mantles but is large enough for a liquid fuel feed so this has to be a HW lamp of some persuasion. I am tempted to say a model 98 but that model in the catalogues has a vertical pricker which this lamp never had because the generator is horizontal above the mantles. I would expect to find the upper horizontal tube above the mixing tube is packed with asbestos and possibly also the vertical tube feeding down to it. Being above the mantles that horizontal tube would certainly get hot enough to vaporise the fuel and the air intake is the gap between jet and mixing chamber. Perhaps this is an earlier manifestation of model 98 from before 1912.


The design of this burner arrangement is old thinking influenced by HW lamps with horizontal over generator burners made from around 1900 and generally obsolete after about 1910-1912. With the Wizard brand we assume Nagel Chase and they were still selling over generator lamps in 1912-1913 which can clearly be seen in this model 15 lamp head which has the same U turn from generator to jet and air gap. ::Neil::

 

This is interesting Neil,

So this may be a different numbered lamp, or not? And manufacturing date is pushed back to possibly 1912-1913 or so. It will be interesting to see if anyone has a early system catalog that might show it.

Now I am posting images of the globe support rod and supports.

Here is the mantle assembly with the globe support and other supports mounted on it.


The first support on the rod may have been used to support a wire tripod holding up in inner mica globe. This bracket has an L shaped set screw and can be slid up and down the rod.




This is the globe support coated in white porcelain. There is another wing screw as Nagel Chase calls them on the back side of this so that this support can be independently fastened in place at a different level than the other two supports.



Just below the globe support is an additional support with wing screw. This slides up and down the rod as well. I suppose this is extra insurance and can be moved to a lower rest position on the globe rod so that the globe support and globe can rest on it while one attends to interior maintenance of the lamp. These wing screws must have taken a fair bit of time to produce more complex than our modern one piece wing nuts.



The support rod is quite pitted. Once taken apart I will de-rust this so that fittings can once again slide up and down the rod as they are stuck in location now due to rust.
I assume the set screw on the mica globe support is L shape because it is just below all the heat and needed to be more robust to stand up to this.


Here is the Mantle casting with the four mantle fittings and a bit or aged white bird droppings on top the casting.


This is the full rod assemble again showing the wing screw on the porcelain globe support casting and rounded tip finished on the support rod.


It will be interesting to see if this is Model No.98 HW Arc or a different model ?

Good Friday Blessings to all.

Brian

 

I guess that upper support fitting is to hold the mica but it is not clear how that attaches to the mica. From the 1912 catalogue the mica is 8" dia and 6" high but the image does not show any fittings. ::Neil::

 

Neil
Perhaps something like this drawing was supporting the mica. As there is a listed part called a Mica Shade Tripod in my 1922 price sheet ?

Kindly,

Brian

 

Looks about right I would have thought. Easy enough to make since you already have the centre fitting.
::Neil::

 

Here is the burner assembly now removed from the lamp.


It is clear the lamp must have fallen at some point bending the cowl a bit and also the bottom of the burner casting which holds onto the globe support rod. Not sure yet what to do about this?
I have cleaned up the mantle burner using vinegar, worked well.



Asbestos rope which was inside the generator seems to be in good condition.


The adjustment nut/screw has turned out to be the jet which sprays vaporized fuel into the burner.



The jet hole is incredibly tiny. It is amazing to me to realize this tiny hole can release enough gas to run four mantles.


Best,

Brian

 

Very interesting! I’m glad you’ve found the jet. Do you have a way of estimating its diameter?

Cheers

Tony

 

The jet is tiny like a hair. I will have to get a wire pricker of some type to determine fit. I noticed Nagel Chase showed a loose hand held one that would have been the style that was used on this lamp.

To clean the vent on this lamp one would have to;
lift the loose hood up which wraps round the lamp stack.
This would reveal the U-turn jet assembly protruding from the side of the stack.
Slipping the wire into the jet opening would then allow one to find the jet opening and clear it with a pricker needle.

I am familiar with this type of pricker as this was how my old camp stove jet also was cleaned.

Best,

Brian

 

Not sure
Not sure if this can be safely bent to strait again since in both cases it is the casting that bent.

Made a buck and bent the hood back into shape.

Best,

Brian

 

I have found this lamp was in use in Sonora California on the doorstep of Yosemite National Park & Gold Rush area in it's past.


Here are a couple interesting pictures from Sonora CA history.

Hollow Wire lamp center (GAR (Civil War Vet's) celebration) Sonora CA


Note Hollow Wire lamp under awning at Post Office, Sonora CA about 1928


Very interesting sign " Electric Starting Lighting and Storage Battery Service Station"
The writing on the wall for gas lighting....

Best,

Brian

 

The assembled lamp.
Need to make up a pair chains w/ rings and add a bit more to the fitter ring.









Lifting up the "hood" to show the jet assembly on the mixing chamber



Time to build a pressure tank to run the lamp....


Best,

Brian

 

That’s looking good, Brian!

Cheers

Tony