Petromax hand scratchings - are they actually made at the factory or not?

@Wim, manufacturing companies would often date or assign unique serial numbers to durable goods for quality control purposes. Knowing the date of manufacture could help the manufacturer to identify causes of defects when failed items are returned.

 

Agree, Coleman however, stamped the date not scratched it. I do think there is a good chance these scratchings were made by the manufacturer since there's just too many examples out there.
I checked my 828 and I can't get a good picture but I am beginning to think mine may be scratched in the tank, too - not stamped!
I don't think that was a practice used here in the US.

 

Thats what I mean, if needed you would do that profesional, with stamping AND there would be records that would explain what the codes are and what they mean.
Tilley did, swedish companies did.
Hasag didn't, continental didn't.

 

I have a Petromax 826 with a 10 and a 4 scratched on the base.

 

@MYN
Thank you for showing
12 3 is December 1933
The Petromax of the early 30s are very rare.

@george
The Petromax lamps were manufactured in Germany until the early seventies.
This then also affects the date codes.

@WimVe
The date codes have nothing to do with whether someone collects the lanterns or not.
Other manufacturers have provided their pressure lamps with date codes. Coleman, Ditmar, Radius, Primus, Hasag.
My Hasag 51 has a stamped date code.

Regards Reinhard

 

I've looked at two more of my accessible Petromaxes. Both have scratched numbers that are consistent with some form of date. I need to set up photography so that I can show it properly, but its too cold and dark now.

Cheers

Tony

 

As I said in an other topic, I have a boxed NOS Petromax 828 with the numbers 3/60 barely visible on the bottom.

I do not know who have done this but why should some end user mark the lantern in this way and in the same pattern as on all other lanterns found so far, if it is not factory made?

If I had done this it should have been completely different and my guess is that every person should have used their own marking logic.

I do not think we can assume that we can find documents for everything we need to know more about, so we can only do what archeologists do and that is to take what we have and make a logic assumption until we know better.

My experience from my own work is that alot of things has been done without documentation over the years and some thing has never been done even that it is stated in documents.

Some things has been started by workers on their own without any specific work order and this procedure has been inherited by new workers.

Asking workers only a few years later and even only a few months later will show that most of them do not remember or even care.

Asking someone that worked in the factory 40-50 years later and assume that this person remember correctly is to hope for a miracle.
At least in my opinion.

My own guess so far is that this is a factory marking.

Maybe by the final inspector to show that the lantern is approved by using this date code.

It can not have taken to long time to do this, hence the usual light scratching found.
Not longer than it take to write his name on a paper or so.

Take my thoughts for what they are, only thoughts.

Michael

 

I checked a couple of Petromaxes, and it turned out that both had some scratching at the tank bottom.
A 900 little baby and an 828.
I knew that the little baby had the number scratchings before, but I was certain that the 828 lacked them.
But a more thorough look actually revealed some very light scrawl at the bottom of that one too!

So the 900 appears to have 540 and the harder to read 828 seems to have 141.
Does that make any logic considering the look of the lanterns? May 1940 and January 1941, perhaps? Anyone who can shed a light?





@Reinhard

 

@Andrew T
10 4 is October 1934
Thank you for sharing.

@cmb56
3/60 is March 1960
Hello Michael,
Your thoughts are right. I work in a farm machinery factory. There I have so many machines with nameplate and labels provided. But please do not ask me what it was exactly 35 years ago on the labels.

But maybe there are still old photos or film footage on which one sees how workers with a rice needle the date codes scratch.

@Carlsson
Absolutely correct
You understood the Petromax code of the 40s.
Thank you for sharing.

Regards Reinhard

 

Thanks Reinhard.
I was surprised to find the numbers under my 828. I have looked in vain several times for them over the years on that lantern, but today I finally saw them.

The more people that report their codes, the better.
Perhaps someone can make a good, and easy to understand compilation eventually.
Or perhaps there already is one somewhere.

 

@Carlsson
I have written a tutorial in the thread of @eiremax "Petromax Sicke Date Code"
Maybe someone can perfect it in good English.
I'm sure with the 4 date codes of the 30s,40s,50s and 60s.
I do not know the 20s code because I do not have a Petromax from the 20s.

I think in 1957 there was no date code. I'm not sure yet. In 1957 there was the smooth carrying frame. A temporary solution. Maybe there is a connection.

After 1970,the Hipolito, Geniol, Petromax, Aida, Petrolite and the "Lantern series" again have 4-digit codes,but I do not understand them yet.

Regards Reinhard

 

Hi all,

I have several Petromax scratched by hand.
Here is an interesting story.
In august 2015 i bought a Petromax 829 in the carton and a No 5 Petromax stove in the carton.
The saleman emptied the barn from a friend's parents and he told him the grandfater bought the lamp and stove for camping at the end of 50s at the same time.

Hand engraving for the lamp is 3/8
Machine engraving for the stove 68
I think March 1958 for the lamp.
I think June 1958 for the stove.
The paper from the stove is dated March 1958.
The Petromax catalog of july 1957 presents on the first page a lamp with a smooth collar , then all the model in the catalog have a striped collar.
All the same a certain coherence.

Regards,
Titoo.

 

Reinhard

I have gone through your various posts. I will attempt to put this in a table for you to check.

In the meantime is this numbering sequence correct?

1930 to 1939: month year (year as single digit) [“1 0” to “12 9”]

1940 to 1949: month year (year as double digit) [“1 40” to “12 49”]

1950 to 1959: month/year [“1/0” to 12/9”]

1960 to 1969: week/year/day

1970 onwards: machine stamped.


Tony


@Reinhard @Carlsson

 

@Tony Press
If you concider my lamp that is marked 3/60 which should mean March 1960, they must have changed the dating procedur some time after March 1960 to the four digit system.

Michael

 

Michael

I’m not an expert here. I’m just trying to understand what people are saying about the scratch numbers and dating. I’ve never offered an opinion on the dating of Petromaxes.

Reinhard said your lantern was 3/1960, so I have to amend what I said above and ask:

1950 to 1960 (inclusive): month/year [1/50 to 12/60]?

Cheers

Tony

@cmb56

 

@Titoo
Your Petromax 828 have a ribbed/stripped collar frame. Must be one of the first few having that if its from the 50s. I believe that's about the time when the new patented collar design was taken into manufacture. The Anderson toggle-type rapid preheater was still maintained it seems.

 

@Tony Press
Many thanks Tony,
The framework for dating is now ready.

In the 40s there were only 5 vintages. 1940, 41,42,43,44.
I never have seen Petromax date codes from 1945 to 1949.

cmb56
By 1960,the date codes were still scratched. The 4-digit date code was introduced in 1961.

@Titoo
Everything is absolutely correct.
Thank you for sharing.
I have a Petromax 827 with ribbed collar from 11/8 = November 1958.
The ribbed collar was introduced sometime in 1958.

Regards Reinhard

 

Conny, the rapid level is patented in 1954-55.

 

I believe thats because in 1945 the Russians had taken over eastern Germany including Berlin and seized everything so the lantern production stopped. A few years later Graetz took everything they could and moved to the western zone and set up a new factory in Altena and the new production must have started in 1949.

Michael

 

I checked the bottom of my Petromax 821 and it looks like a "9" with what could be two number "1" in front of the 9.

 

The lack of any stamping/scratchings on those lanterns made from 1945 through 1949, makes very good sense. The Soviet army took what they could back into the USSR, especially during this "cleanup period". Conditions in the USSR were not much better than they were in occupied Germany, especially the eastern zone. So they took what they could.
Yes, my Petromax 821 has scratched dates and upon further checking they are either, "119" or "1/9". From what I am reading here I think I'll leave that to the experts - Reinhard, your turn!

 

I checked another 827 I remembered I had. Based on the tank which has the logo on it with the "E" within the "G". Figured this tank is at least pre-1952. However, the flipper is plastic not the normal "zink" type flipper. Feel they were mixed with another 827 parts.
Regardless, the tank should have some kind of scratched dates on it. (?) Anyway, no sign of scratches.
Now, I also checked the bottom of my Sicke Aida 1250. I could not find any scratches on this one either.
Has anyone checked the bottom of the Dutch civil defence MD41 Aida 1250 lanterns? I have several and will check soon.
Also, I have a Petromax 2827 WWII lantern. No scratches but an inked date of "644", assume June 1944. This is a military lantern so don't know anything about any civilian types. Did they even make any for civilian use?

 

There is a good written documentation about what happend to the E&G plant after WW2 being taken over by the russian army. Signal auf Grün Geschichte des VEB Werk 1981.
For the record: your idea doesn't match with that.
The only evidence I have seen what could happen is the documentation about the Hugi Schneider factory where the HASAG where made as well as the stoty from the Stübchen factory where the BAT lantern was made.

Chronik Leipzig Permoserstraße, "Zur Geschichte eines Industrie- und Wissenschaftsstandortes", ISBN-Nr. 3-932900-61-8
As far as I know there is no public BAT history.

To end with: there is even a more illusive book which was published for the 100year (?) aniversary of the E&G factory.
Illusive because it was published during the war.

I would strongly suggest that we talk about possibilities in stead of facts.

 

Or maybe the other way around

 

Oh well, I tried...

 

Here a Petromax 882 with what looks like “5 8”:






Here a Petromax “Rapid” 200cp with a clearly scratched “12”.






Cheers

Tony

 

@Tony Press
You have rarities
5 8 =May 1938
1 2 =January 1932
Thank you for sharing.

Regards Reinhard

 

@Tony Press
That's a surprise.
As far as I know, this fast preheated was only available from 1935 onwards at.
I think he looks a little different.

Regards Reinhard

 

Reinhard

I’ve cleaned off more dirt. It says it is “827”.




Cheers

Tony


@Reinhard

 

@Tony Press
827 is the typ number.
Petromax 827.