Primus No 1020 age and seized solid NRV

Best to make your own tool. The ones made by the lamp and stove companies are just not good enough. A nice big bolt maybe 10 or 12mm and cut a 5mm slot in the end. Drill a hole at the other end for a tommy bar or screwdriver so you can exert some downforce whilst twisting. I have a couple like this and they have not failed me yet. ::Neil::

 

@Henry Plews

Thanks for that Henry, i was thinking that could be the way forward so you have saved me a few quid there, i thought that because i was recently told that the original Swedish stove jet removal tool is superior to the articulated Monitor type that is widely available,
I wrapped some tape around the generic NRV tool that i have yesterday but the handle has just started to bend and i didn't think i applied that much pressure to it as i am afraid to damage it,
I bought a fairly expensive universal tall when i first got into the hobby but in practice it doesn't feel that safe to use and as you can see in the picture its not the best fitment,

@Mackburner

Thanks Neil, i don't suppose you fancy making and selling me one do you as with my limited tools etc i might struggle a bit and it would never be as good as one that you manufactured,
Although these look to fit ok in my opinion the slot isn't deep enough and there is too much movement when you apply pressure so i cannot get enough purchase on the offending article, it wasn't a cheap tool either.

 

Neil's probably right. If you can make your own tool you're ahead of the game! However. If you're like me, you're all thumbs (damn lucky I still have mine), so there is a fellow in Taiwan who sells a tool that works for both types. It's not cheap but well made and it's heavy so it will give a good grip. I tried it when I first received it and it worked really good. Check out the bay of evil. Please, don't give up it will come out!

 

@MG Oh dear, that tool is nowhere near deep enough and that rounded corner ? The saving grace is that there's plenty of metal there so treat yourself to a junior hacksaw and a set of warding files and adjust the depth of the slot so that it accommodates all of the valve head.

Has the tool handle stayed bent or did it spring back once you'd removed the pressure ? Adjust the tool and give it another go.

Henry.

 

@george

The tool in the pictures is his earlier version, i don't know if Optimus etc made slightly different sizes as the bits are different and one won't fit both of the NRV's pictured,

@Henry Plews

After adding the pictures i thought that Henry, i'm not happy how the bit sits in the shaft either as it keeps twisting and coming out even with the grub screw fully tightened,
It is the generic tools handle that is bent, i will try and make the slots deeper in the other one and see how i get on,

Thanks.

 

@george

I also have the one from Taiwan. It is very well made and is long enough to reach the nrv in dual burner stoves that have quite long pump tubes, which may be useful to some people.

 

Make you a tool? I have enough trouble getting motivated to get out of bed and anyway I don't have any machine tools so my slots are cut with hacksaw and file like Henry suggests. They look crude but function. I am sure you can do just as well as I can. That tool you have will work fine once you cut the slot much deeper but that is only the business end. I would have that riveted and welded to something 10mm dia and solid so it can't bend and allow a firm pressure and twist. Fitted to a narrow shaft and held with a grub screw is Mickey Mouse engineering. Looks fancy but ain't practical.

It is instructive to talk with the Coleman guys about NRV extraction. Coleman valves are REALLY tight and a normal screwdriver pretty well always destroys the valve. The wisdom from the Coleman repair shops is a fitted tool but rather than hand twisting they say to use a soft hammer on the operator bar to shock the threads lose. I have never had to try this on these Swedish types but it may be the way to go with a particularly tight valve. ::Neil::

 

@Mackburner

Thanks Neil, i know the feeling, i'll have to try and get my vice mounted somewhere and then i will have a go at elongating the openings to see if i can get a better purchase on the NRV, i also found there was a bit of swarf in the mounting point that was stopping the bit from being pushed all the way in, hopefully once customised i will be in business, if it fits ok i can then try and shock it into submission or at least move it slightly so that the plusgas can get in there, it was the generic tools handle that started to bend, this one should be stronger and hopefully work once done.

 

Well that looks impressive enough. Get the business end right and it should work OK. ::Neil::

 

As they (nearly) said in Jaws "we need a bigger bolt!) i made a nice enough job of adjusting the tools depth and after trying it on the nrv with a few light taps from a mallet i thought i had cracked it but sadly not, the edge on the bit has deformed so i need to find a very thick and long bolt, i don't even think a 10-12 mm bolt will do it so i'll try and get the largest one i can that will fit down the pump tube.

 

I've just ordered two M16 x 200mm high tensile bolts, if one of those doesn't do it then i'm most probably beaten.

 

Not sure what sort of steel an HT bolt is. I would probably make sure the slot fits snug first and then case harden the business end. Sounds like your deformed tool might have benefitted from that as well. If I were in your situation I would have made a special tool by now. Nice big bolt with a slotted and and at the other end fitted in a smaller rod so I could use an impact driver to try to shock the valve lose. I don't use the impact driver much but sometimes it can come in handy for real stubborn screws Etc. ::Neil::

 

@Mackburner

Its starting to pee me off that's for sure, how would i case harden it, i've had a quick look and so far i've found that you've got to get it to a certain temperature and then quench it in oil, i could probably get it to a glowing red with my blow torch but i haven't got anything to measure temps etc, is that good enough,
I was hoping my fairly expensive tool would have done the job but i'm at the point where i need something heavy duty now, impact driver as in the hand held one that you twist as you hit it or can i use my cordless impact? i'm not feeling that confident now and i don't think it is economically viable to pay someone to sort it out for me if i cause any damage.

 

If you can still get a tool on the NRV then keep trying. Put more penetrating oil on it. Removing the pump barrel is the last resort in my book!

 

@george

Yes i've been trying my best not to damage it, i'm not really capable to be able to remove, repair and refit the pump tube if needed, if this doesn't do it then it'll end up on the to do pile and if i'm lucky i'll find another tank in good condition with a serviceable nrv.

 

Try this: Take the existing tool you currently have for removing the NRV, make sure you have a good connection between the tool and the NRV and instead of using the tool handle use a pair of vice grips on the tool as tight as you can get it, dump some more oil in the pump barrel and back up the font so it can't slide, and slowly start turning it and applying pressure as you turn the tool. Just make sure the font is secure and it won't slide. It's worth a try!

 

Thanks George, i'm a bit dubious of using that one now since it distorted under pressure, the bolts should be here this week so i'll give them a go, i will wrap tape around them so it keeps them as centralised as possible in the tube, as its a bolt i might see if i can jar the nrv loose or at least crack it with my impact driver, its not mega powerful so shouldn't do any damage as long as the tool is seated correctly, i'd like to think the nrv would give before the solder does, fingers crossed, if the bolt doesn't end up being man enough i'll have to try and get some silver steel bar and make something out of that, my good value 1020 is starting to get expensive!

 

I know how you feel! I think I spent close to a "kings ransom" on tools just to get the damn thing to break free! Then, in the end I screwed it up so bad I had to get my son to unsolder the pump barrel. He gave me hell for not asking him sooner. Said he could have saved me a bundle if I only had asked!

 

Yes case hardening is done by heating and quenching in some high carbon material. Oil is normal but any high carbon/sugar content liquid will do. Just get the end as hot as you can. Orange-Yellow if possible but high end red will do. All you are doing is adding carbon the skin of the steel to make the surface harder. Hotter is better but even doing at red will work fine. ::Neil::

 

Have a look here:

Home-made Primus NRV tool



It is based on the original Primus workshop tool no. No.1592 that Christer @Carlsson had posted about.

It was easy enough to make with minimal tools and has quickly removed the most stubborn stuck or rounded-off NRVs without further damage.

Here is Christers version of the tool with photos and description of how it works:

NRV removal tips?

 

Yes, the lock-down type of tool á la Primus 1592 is the absolutely best. It won't slip one bit, and that's the most crucial part in removing an NRV.

 

@george

Well at least you know to ask him first now, sadly i don't have anyone to ask, i spoke to one person who said it would be a three hour job and financially wasn't worth doing, they didn't give a price but it must of been expensive to say that,
I found the tail end of a thread where you said you wished you'd found a tool like the one described above, hopefully there is one available for a decent price somewhere now i've seen and read about it as i'm not that confident the bolt will work even though the experienced fettlers have had success with it,

@Mackburner

Nice one, thanks Neil,

@phaedrus42

@Carlsson

Thanks gents, is there anywhere i can buy such a tool?

 

The tool I ordered cost 35.00 US and another 10.00 US to ship. Not cheap, my you but it works. Unsoldering the pump barrel is not hard; it's soldered on the outside of the font and easy to get to. This is beyond my capabilities, bad hands (arthritis) and not good at soldering. My son had it off in about 15 minutes! Most of this time was spent taking precautions not to wreck the font from heating. I then removed the NRV from the bottom. Little bugger came right out! Cleaned everything up and resoldered it. I wouldn't think it would cost a lot to fix this. If you're like me, I spent more money on tools I'll never use then probably what I would have spent on soldering/unsoldering the barrel!

 

I'm hoping to find one like Phil pictured, preferably the workshop type, i've also asked someone if they can reproduce one, this is the first badly seized nrv i've had but want to prepared for the next one, whenever that may be!
I could learn to solder but it would be ages before i would attempt it on a nice lamp and i'm itching to get this Primus working now.

 

I can't blame you. I got my 1020 from a dear friend in Holland many years ago. I felt sick when that NRV would not come out! I took NRVs out of Optimus, numerous Petromax, Aida, and even my grand old lady, the Primus 1001 (circa 1930) and never had the battle I had with the 1020!
Just hang in there it will eventually break free!

 

It will if i can get hold of one of these

 

Or you can make a similar make-shift one with not much effort at all.
Practically anyone can do it, as seen a bit down in that post Phaedrus linked to, and it works well too.
You just need a threaded shaft, some nuts for it, a discarded pump-cap and the slotted head.

 

@Carlsson

I've asked someone if they can make a copy of your version as this could possibly be a lifetime hobby so it'll be worth it in the long run but if no joy thanks for the link, i would also have to source a pump cap.

 

Reading through most of this, I gather a stuck NRV that is NOT going to be removed by whatever super-duper professional tool if the head of the NRV is deformed by now.

Everything seems to be said already, except this one: a left-handed screw extractor that can find purpose in the enlarged (drilled out) center vent of the NRV.
Not likely in MG's league either, but any machine shop should be able to do it for an acceptable price.

As for 'waking up' stuck thread of this size, a small steel hammer - not a soft one - like that of an upholsterer with a suitable drift could break the old bond. The idea is to create a quick pulse, not a blow that could be damaging.

Perhaps someone through this forum might step up and have the tank travel some distance back and forth? Life with CPL's is adventure after all, innit?

 

@M.Meijer

As yet the NRV is still viable, i have been patient enough to not make it worse and have ordered the parts to make Christer's first NRV removal tool, i'm just hoping my friend will make the business end for me, if not then i'll have to try and do it, thanks for your input though, all advice is much appreciated.