Vapalux M320 first run, fail and fire :(

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by alex.g, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Jiri E.

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    Stephan

    Thanks for info. I will try to get datasheet for "Diamant" kerosene. I will also have a look for Shellsol T in Czech Republic and will try buy Pre-Pac Paraffin Extra in UK (and new vaporizer too :( )

    Maybe, you can look at Yachticon Spezial Blau, it should be isoparaffin too. Link: http://www.bootskram.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p7039_YACHTICON-Spezial-Blau-Petroleum-5-Liter.html
     
  2. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hello Jiri and Stephan, Pre-Pac paraffin is sold in 4 litre plastic drums in the UK., and it varies in price a lot, from £7 upwards.

    Depending on where you are in the UK., there are still places where one can turn up with a drum and fill it with paraffin and it's a lot cheaper, so take some 20 litre drums with you.

    Another fuel which folk use is barbecue fluid and it's often sold off cheaply in the winter.

    So far, the quality of British paraffin has not caused problems with any of my lamps.

    Some of the American collectors have mentioned that the quality of their paraffin/kerosene varies, Jeff.
     
  3. Jiri E.

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    Hello Jeff,

    last time, I had a problem on ferry with just really small knife (they told that it is offensive weapon or something so stupid because it had a pocket clip) on the way from UK. I would like to ask you if there will be problem with 20l of kerosene or not in the car on ferry. What do you think?


    Stephan:

    I found that "Diamant" kerosene is actually this one: http://www.cago.de/shopexd.asp?id=15352

    Do you know that? Did you try? Shellsol T is in my country for about 40Euro/3l. Not a good deal.

    Jiri
     
  4. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hello Jiri, I do not see why there should be, folk carry cans of petrol in the boots of their cars and that is a far more volatile fuel than paraffin/kerosene.

    Sometimes officials can be petty though, Jeff.
     
  5. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Not to mention the 60 litres or so of very volatile petrol/gasoline in the tank! :whistle:
     
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  6. StephanE

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    Hi Jiri,

    I tried different brands of paraffin but only for my heaters (Aladdin Blue Flame Heater, POD 7k, POD 8k, Turm L51) and only regarding the smell while using them in the house.

    In my Tilleys, Bialaddins or Vapalux I never made such experiments due to the high costs for vapouriser, spigot or burner. They lighted with Shellsol T from the beginning.

    Here is a source for Shellsol T in Germany, they also have datasheets to download:

    http://www.kremer-pigmente.com/de/loesemittel--chemikalien-und-hilfsmittel/shellsol-t-70460.html

    I again clarify I don't use my british lamps every day and therefore I prefer to spent a little more for the fuel instead for parts that are not easily to obtain here.

    If anyone can tell you what exactly is in the canister with the so called isoparaffin quality and they guarantee that you will always get the same after you have used it up then you will be on the sure side but otherwise it is a lottery.

    For everyday use I recommend a Petromax or similar that burns ordinary and easily to obtain paraffin, for the british lamps my recommendation was, is and will be Shellsol T.

    Except for the folks in UK ;)
     
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  7. Wim

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    Hi Jiri, going to the UK I guess you'll take a ferry from France? Surely you'll be able to find 20liter pre-packed paraffin in France? In Belgium, every Do-it-Yourself store (Brico, Gamma, Hubo to name just a few) has 20l plastic drums with fuel for Zibro Kamin and similar heaters, these cost approx.30€ .I myself buy "at the pump" and pay approx. 1€ per liter (it's been a while since I last got some, summer 2011 it was still under 1€/liter).

    Best regards,

    Wim
     
  8. Doron Papo

    Doron Papo

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    here is another example what can happen with bad kero
    this is a vap on a X410A
    1327231721-tilleyexploded.jpg
     

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  9. alex.g

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    Damn :( anyone want to trade my new M320 for Petromax?

    Jiri, alebo si budes si Izokerozin? Ja este tu pupicku musim nejako opravit :(
     
  10. StephanE

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    I just want to mention the alternative "brass vapouriser" again. A guy in Germany makes them and sells them on hytta-antik.de.

    Here is the link for the Vapalux/Bialaddin-type:

    http://hytta-antik.de/index.php?p=detail&id=904

    He also offers vaps for Tilleys.

    The big advantage is that you can unscrew the jet in case there has carbon built up in the vap. So it is easily to clean out what with the original vaps is impossible.

    In case the jet is worn you can replace it with a Petromax jet (250cp).

    With this vap you would have the option to use paraffin that you can buy locally.
     
  11. Doron Papo

    Doron Papo

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    That is a very good option and will save a lot of money for a user lantern
     
  12. StephanE

    StephanE Subscriber

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    The only "disadvantage" of the brass vapouriser is that the tank of the lamp will get warmer because the brass conducts the heat better than steel.

    The guy who produces them knows about this and has made vaps with a reduced wall thickness in the middle section to lower the amount of heat that is brought to the tank.

    It works well but with a steel vap the tank stays "colder".
     
  13. Carlsson

    Carlsson Sweden Admin/Founder Member

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    Well, all this talk about the 320 lately got me to dig this bastard out again yesterday.
    As I said, it never worked as it should when I got it, unused as it was.
    But I gave it a new shot and dismantled everything, gave it a sweep and put it together again thoroughly.
    It had a leak in the tank lid gasket, so I had to replace that one. But after that... Well, wouldn't you know... It worked pretty well!
    I'm glad it did, because the lantern itself gives a pretty solid and robust feeling to it. It's the kind that tells you to use it, and don't be afraid to do it under any conditions whatsoever. :lol:

    The light output isn't too impressive, though, even if it isn't bad. I guess the main issue here was the sturdiness.

    I had it running for three hours yesterday without any special attendance.
    Here's an image:
    1327790353-Vapalux.jpg
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2017
  14. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hello Christer, it looks good in the snow, very atmospheric! Jeff.
     
  15. Carlsson

    Carlsson Sweden Admin/Founder Member

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    Thanks Jeff!

    Snow always lift a picture of our lanterns.
    It would with table lamps too, but unfortunately it would be quite a bit out of context to put those out in the open. :lol:
     
  16. Jiri E.

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    Hello,

    today, new vaporizer made by Dirk Frieborg arrived. Here are some pictures and video. I am very happy with it, but you need to use jet cleaner often.
    Thanks to StephanE for reference.

    I also installed 250HK jet to my Petromax 829B and it works perfectly. Bright, less fuel consumption etc.

    Petromax+Vapalux+Hasag:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z204oN3vls

    Edit: Pictures removed, all in this video:
    Vapalux M320 new vaporizer and mantle
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAsvdiAQ-Ng
     
  17. StephanE

    StephanE Subscriber

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    Hi Jiri,

    glad you were able to obtain a brass vapouriser, to have to use the jet cleaner often seems to me a sign of conventional paraffin. I made the same experience when using ordinary paraffin.

    When using Shellsol T I don't have to use the pricker that often, an additional sign for me that Shellsol T doesn't built up that much carbon in the vapouriser.

    The big advantage for you is that you can use the paraffin that is available locally (and cheaper) and just in case of a carbon built-up you can dismantle the vapouriser to clean it.

    I think a good compromise :clap:
     
  18. StephanE

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    Jiri,

    I forgot: Great videos. We both should ask Dirk for royalties, me recommending his product and you making an advertising video :lol:
     
  19. alex.g

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    Thanks to all,
    i need to order vaporizer, too. We are using the same paraffin
     
  20. Dan D

    Dan D Subscriber

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    Yes, excellent videos. Per your suggestion, I ordered a Vapalux and Tilley 169 version of his vapourisers back in the middle of March. I'm still waiting for them to arrive (I'm in the US) and now with even greater anticipation.

    Dan
     
  21. Jiri E.

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    Hello,

    I am happy you like videos.

    Thanks again to StephanE for reference of brass vapo.

    Jiri
     
  22. alex.g

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    Got vaporizer from Germany :)
    Now need to dismatle my vapalux
    Is there any guide or something special to check while diassembling?

    Thank you
     
  23. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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  24. StephanE

    StephanE Subscriber

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    Alex, glad to hear you got the vapouriser.

    There is nothing special to pay attention for.

    Just have a look at the cleaning needle, it is enough if it comes out of the jet about 0,5mm.

    You can adjust this by using a file to shorten the lower end of the cleaning needle rod or by using a thicker seal between control cock and brass vapouriser.
     
  25. Jiri E.

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    A little update after 3 years:

    Brass vaporizer helped a lot, but not 100 %.

    I think that 250HK jet is too much for local kerosene too. The "flame of the lantern" looked like "too much fuel, too little oxygen". I think it needs smaller jet. Will try to install 150CP jet.

    Also brass vaporizer is much better heat conductor, so lantern at all takes a lot of heat quickly. Will try to make vaporizer by myself with thinner walls (less conductance) and "missing brass" will replace with PTFE.

    Jiri
     
  26. StephanE

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    Jiri,

    any updates about your self-made vapourizer?
     
  27. TommiL

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    Hi,

    Coming back to this old topic... Just experienced (again) swollen vaporiser and spigot in my Bialaddin 300X lantern. Above in the dialogue it was proposed that the used fuel (kerosene) wasn't proper one as a root cause.

    Still wondering about the root cause. I have two other Bialaddins, running on same fuel, but it is the second time with the same lamp I'm having the problem thus I think the problem is more on the fuel and air mix causing the overheating rather than the fuel itself, I believe. Maybe too much air vs fuel causing the overheat? This was visible as I was running two 300X lanterns side by side: When I shut down the lanterns, the one having the problem had spigot glowing really bright red, and the other one not. How to control the air mixture in Bialaddin/Vapalux lanterns? Should I change the burner as well?

    -tommi
     
  28. JonD

    JonD Subscriber

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    Hello Tommi, I have an X246B which keeps doing this too. I have also read the idea that the fuel is to blame but I find that theory hard to believe.
    If the fuel is cracking inside the vapouriser, depositing carbon, it will surely block itself long before the walls of the tube bulge and swell.

    I think this is exactly as you wrote - running too hot. The metal softens and that is when swelling happens. But why does it run too hot?
    Yes mixture can have something to do with it, but is it really enough for that?

    I have come to think it's about heat transfer away from the top of the vapouriser and spigot. There isn't anywhere much for it to go except up to the main body of the burner. The amount going down the vapouriser tube by conduction will be small I reckon. So I have come to think that it matters the vapouriser has good contact with the spigot and that the spigot has good contact with the main burner body. That is what takes the heat away and prevents red hot running.

    I know my X246B is not all perfect in that area and I think that is why it swells vapourisers. One day I will but a new burner, spigot and vapouriser in it but to be honest it has had all the money I am willing to spend thrown at it. It isn't worth following that with more. One day I will find a basket case with a decent burner and only then will it get the vapouriser I am unwilling to fit knowing it will in all probability follow the others.

    Next time I will be running in for short periods and checking for red hot running. Best of luck.
     
  29. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    The reason that the fuel was suspected initially was because this swelling problem occurred abroad. Since the lanterns might be assumed to be 'much of a muchness', all being produced in the same UK factory, it was reasonable to think it was an external factor causing the issue.

    Now, if the same problem is occurring here in the UK, maybe we need to look for other possible causes. However, I still wouldn't necessarily rule out fuel as the culprit because it's quite possible the UK spec has been changed to match the European one. In any case, it's well known that fuel volatility has been lowered here progressively over the years and that might be the nub of the problem...
     

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