Who manufactured Coleman lamps and stoves in Australia?

Some evidence for point 3. It's a 242B and the pictures must have come from ebay.

 

Nils

Thanks! 1960 is a good date to have for Aussie Colemans.

Cheers

Tony

 

Best evidence I have seen yet. Direct from the maker to say "we made this here". Dispels any doubts I might have had about a factory in Aus. ::Neil::

 

Neil

There are now sightings of Coleman lamps from 1951 to 12/60 made in Australia.

I (and others, including Matty) consider that manufacture of Coleman products in Adelaide from 1950 to 1954 is probably confirmed; and in Melbourne from ?1954 to 12/1960 (at least) is probable - the post 1954 lamps had to be made somewhere, and it wasn't Adelaide.

Cheers

Tony

 

I know that 2 Cato ST Auburn became a PMG Technicians Training school at some time in the early 60's, I started my training at the Ballarat school, in 1965 but the Auburn school was up and running then. I had some training there all through the 60's and later. I can't remember who was in the premises before the PMG. I will be meeting some fellow trainees next week, so I will ask if they can remember anything about the history.

 

Hey! That's very interesting. As far as we can make out, Cato St. would have been the likely place for Coleman manufacture in Melbourne.

All the Aussie-made lamps seems to fade out at the end of 1960.

Cheers

Tony

 

That sounds a pretty good tie in.

I'm working on, and have found some information, on Colemans feeling that they needed to move to Melbourne.

What they wanted to do didn't pan out, sadly for the Sth Australian factory.

In My Opinion:

Terrell, of Coleman Canada, made some ill judged decisions on home heating appliances intended for the Australian market.

It seems, once it was realised that Australians heated their homes far less often and far fewer rooms at any given time than those in North America, the production of the heating systems that was to take place here in Australia, was abandoned.

Those heating systems were never intended to be manufactured at Cato St.The stoves and lamps and smaller heaters etc, most definitely were.

It was always intended to open the Cato St factory to manufacture the smaller stuff with various other Australian engineering companies producing various units of the very large home heating systems.

It was considered that Sth Australia did not have the manufacturing capabilities to produce the heating systems. Lack of materials meant it would have been expensive to source material from other states and it's doubtful Coleman felt the local factories were of a high enough standard to produce the systems. Hence, the move to Melbourne.

Coleman realised the systems were not going to sell in Australia as they were over kill for the Australian climate and also very expensive at £1,000 and a £1 a day to operate at full capacity.

By 1956 Coleman had redesigned the heating systems to much smaller units. These units were to be manufactured in Canada - not Australia.

That's as far as I'm up to

 

I just checked my lanterns.... I have two with 12/60 on them.

 

Thanks, Peter

I haven't had any advances on 12/60 for an Aussie Coleman yet.

Matty

Regarding our conversation the other day, I had one of my older brothers here on the weekend and he remembers that we had electricity connected to our farm in mid 1954.

The post-war investment in electricity infrastructure was certainly quite extensive, even further out west than where I grew up - I can remember my grandmother's house had electricity when I was a very young boy.

It would seem that the electrification of rural Australia meant the end of production for Coleman and others.

As an aside, I was talking to Alan Faiman from Austramax who said his main market now was in the Pacific.

Cheers

Tony

 

Tony,

I have been reading articles about the spread of the electric grid after the war.

A lot of money was spent getting electricity to smallish towns way out yonder. It seems money wasn't a consideration.

I assume the Governments of the day considered it as an investment.

One town of 300 people had a whole lot of cash pumped into getting the electricity to the town.

I doubt small towns today would have that sort of money invested in them.

 

Tony,

What do you make of this statement by C J Thomas in 1930?

Mr C. J. Thomas, of the Coleman Quicklite Co., Australia, said that his company was purely Australian, but it had found that it was necessary to import several lines from America.

 

Matty

I think four things:

1. Obfuscation is the domain of politicians and commerce.

2. There is no contradiction between saying we are a purely Australian company and we need to import from Coleman.

3. The need to import from Coleman neither confirms nor denies that Thomas Co. manufactured Coleman in Australia.

4. On the face of it. Thomas may or may not have been a manufacturer. But there is still no direct evidence that they manufactured Coleman (at least before the 1950s).

Cheers

Tony

 

Tony,

What about the statement made by McDowell, the bloke that brought the complaint to the Tariff Board?

When the Tariff Board resumed today Mr. I. McDowell, of the Australian Alumenlte Co. Sydney, applied for an increased duty, on oil and spirit heating lamps, and heating and cooking appliances. He said that there was ample capital available to produce the total requirements of Australia in the lines for which increased duty was sought.

Before you answer, I thought I'd say this.

I won't bore you with long winded detailed stories. That is unless you want me to quantify what I'm about to say.

This tariffs board battle was essentially between Wizard Lighting Systems and Coleman.

Wizard, were producing their products in Australia and felt that Coleman were getting away with murder by importing some of their products.

McDowell states, essentially, that Coleman has the available capital to invest into the manufacturing of all their products in Australia.

It was duty on "the lines" i.e, those not being produced in Australia, by Coleman, was he seeking extra tarrifs on.

I think C J Thomas quite clearly states they are manufacturing in Australia but they have to import some stuff from the US.

I think McDowell quite clearly states, the only tariff increase on Coleman he is seeking, is for the lines Coleman is not manufacturing in Australia.

 

Matty

On the face of the evidence, you are neither wrong, nor right.

Thomas Co. may had been doing all kinds of things, including putting together Coleman in Australia. The question is: did they manufacture?

I would LOVE to know they did. But I haven't seen the direct evidence yet.

It's not a competition. Be careful, and seek what you don't know - not look for what you think you know.

Cheers

Tony

 

Coleman 1 1917
Coleman 2 1921 Coleman 3 1921

 

Coleman 4 1921

Coleman 5 1922
Coleman 6 1922

 

Coleman 7 1922
Coleman 8 1923 Coleman 9 1923

 

Coleman 10 1923
Coleman 11 1923

 

Coleman 11 1927
Coleman 12 1937

 

Early Coleman in Australia
I have tried to find the first mention of articles and advertisements showing events in the history of Coleman in Australia from Trove

1- 29 March 1917 Parkes, NSW R S Howard & Sons Advert
Coleman lanterns were for sale in Australia. Local Agent for Coleman Lamp Co of America.
(Who imported or distributed them is unknown .)

2- 9 February 1921 Sydney Registration of word "Air-o-Lite" by Coleman Lamp Company, Kansas U.S.A. List
Trade Mark Applications accepted

3, 10 January 1921 Mudgee NSW Agent for Coleman Lamp Co
3a 13 May 1921 Griffith NSW W M Gow Agent for Coleman Lamp Co
Advertising by "Agents" for Coleman Lamp Co.

4, 19 August 1922 Melbourne Vic T W Sands Illustrated Advert

5 7 September 1922 Melbourne Vic T W Sands Illustrated Advert
Showing LQ327 (I think)

6 2 December 1922 Melbourne Vic Coleman Quick-Lite Co of Australia Illustrated Advert Bris / Qld
395 Collins ST Melbourne

7 24 February 1923 Sydney, NSW Commercial News and Shipping List Shipping list
11 cartons Lamps from Can(ada)?

8 10 April 1923 Lismore, NSW Mc Cartney & Co Advert
Coleman Two and four burner Lamps ?

9 14 April 1923 Melbourne, Vic Coleman Table lamp Advert

10 15 August 1923 Sydney, NSW Commercial News and Shipping List Trade Mark Registrations
#35,218. (Vapour or gas generating pressure lamps of the portable pendant, ceiling, and wall types, vapour, gas and oil lanterns and urnburners Words -"Coleman Quick-Lite the Sunshine of the Night"- -Coleman Lamp Co., Wichita, United States of America.)

11 3 June 1927 Dalby, Qld Coleman Quick-Lite Co of Australia Illustrated Advert
Address changed 395 Collins St to 185 William St Melbourne
(First advert for C. J. Thomas & Son Pty Ltd.(Coleman Quick-Lite Co. of Australia Ply. Ltd.)) is 1949

12 4 August 1937 Sydney, NSW Coleman Quick-Lite Co Illustrated Advert
Sportlite & Scout Coleman Quick-Lite Co., 500 Kent St Sydney

 

Graham

Thanks for posting this very useful information about the Australian Coleman story.

It illustrates a couple of things to me:

1. At least in the early period (late 1910s to possibly into the 1930), there were both Canadian and US made Colemans imported commercially into Australia. Evidence given to the Tariff Inquiry in the early 1930s points to this as well.

As an aside, the US-made 1927 LQ327 I have posted in the Reference Gallery came from outback South Australia - as do many old Colemans - and Adelaide (South Australia's capital) appears to have had local importers from early on.

2. The early (1922) marketing of Coleman by TW Sands in Melbourne (for those who don't know, TW Sands is still operating selling lamps and lanterns etc).

Cheers

Tony

 

Interesting that "Agents" were advertising from as far afield as Parkes, Mudgee, Leeton, Sydney- Dunedoo and Melbourne before an advert from Coleman Lamp Co.
More to come as I get the time from later periods

 

Graham

"Trove" is a national treasure. It's a pity that funding for Trove appears to be drying up.

I've used Trove for many purposes apart from lamps and stoves, including finding out interesting things about my family.

For those who don't know, it contains the digitised contents of Australian newspapers. See here:

About Trove

Cheers

Tony

 

I think this proves otherwise.

 

Good job I don't collect blow lamps then. If they were made by Coleman then where are they? Every Coleman colletor in America would have one? ::Neil::

 

Where? I can't see where it says that Coleman made that blow torch, it just says made in North America. A quick Google of Butler blow torches brings up this site here which shows a Coleman label and states it was made by Butler Metal Products. It's proves Neil was right that they sold one but not that they made one.

 

They also had a tie-in with Monitor for blow torches for the Australian market in the 1930's

 

@spiritburner & @Matthew92

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Tony

 

Reading your post I would agree with everything you said.

I did mean to imply that Coleman manufactured the blow torches. The label clearly disputes that.

My apologies Neil.

 

OK so I have a copy of the Blow Torches book here. Lists every blow lamp made in America. It does not list this as a Butler or any other make. It is only listed as a Coleman with what I suspect is the same advert. Did Coleman Canada make it? I am not prepared to say they did not. They offer it for sale and say it is made in North America which perhaps implies Canada. It does have the look of a Primus/Optimus type but then they do say it is a European type. No other North American company made anything like it for direct sale so maybe Coleman did manufacture it. They certainly had the ability and the evidence suggests they did. ::Neil::